oh shit i didn't know that-- i thought it had been ancelotti who fucked up. florentino is president not owner (it's member-owned), but what about di maria though? why was he sold? cronaldo apparently has been fuming for a while now.

i read a rumor (ridiculous but still) that xabi alonso had fled an affair with some singer at the insistence (threats) of his wife, and that was why he went to munich ha ha ha. srsly, some tabloid shit.

did xavi go to china or the us in the end? i have no idea ha ha ha.

ps- on more bad news, badstuber injured *again* and will need surgery. fucking pep needed to hire more central defenders. should have gone after chiellini or someone like that. too many midfielders-- speaking of which-- look up gianluca gaudino, only 17, looks like he hit puberty 2 weeks ago, and a rising star.

I think DiMaria was a similar case, made a bit more logical by the massive amount MU were prepared to pay for him, plus the arrival of players like James Rodriguez would've made him compete for a starting position.

Haha, the rumour about him having an affair was leaked in Spain by the totally pro-Barca newspaper El Mundo Deportivo that has a history of reporting stuff designed to undermine Real. He's apparently suing the paper over it.

Xavi was meant to go to the NY Red Bulls in the summer but signed to stay at Barcelona for another season instead. He hasn't started a game for them yet though and seems to have more of a coaching/general presence role than a playing one, although he has come on off the bench.

I love Xavi but had he gone to Bayern he might've been the straw that broke the camel's back for their fans. Xabi's obviously Spanish but not as synonymous with a Spanish style as Xavi is.

Yeah looks like Pep needs a CD big time. Be careful what you wish for though. He's a big David Luiz fan so Bayern might be better off if he just ignores that position altogether.

Good article on their current injury woes

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...anchester-city

Also rumours Ozil might be off to Bayern.

Arsenal were shocking tonight. Embarrassing. Dortmund were different class. Just amazed it was only 2-0.

if only mkhitarian had found his aim!

immobile's goal was … dammit, both dortmund goals were beautiful. what a joy they are to watch when they attack. but immobile's run was particularly epic.

this is the first time i see dortmund in a long time and what a great suprise.

sokratis does a good job of filling up for hummels-- yes, he doesn't distribute the ball or threaten in corner kicks the same way but i thought he defended very well.

mkhitarian greatly skilled though a bit too selfish maybe? still he put on a good show (except for missing a bunch of goals, ha ha). definitely this game's diva.

grosskreutz in gotze's old spot pretty decent, later switching sizes to the right.

aubemayang fantastic though in the end he looked completely spent.

great to see subotic back in action after reading he had been injured or under surgery or something.

can't wait to see kagawa in! i thought kloppo would put him in after mkhitarian's yellow card.

for all his complaints of lack of a deep bench i think dortmund's bench looks great

injured currently are:
hummels
kuba
piszcek
reus
gundogan
i don't know who else...

...and they still played great!

thanks for that!


ha ha ha ha!

i'll keep wishing for chiellini.


MORE midfielders?!?!?!??!?!?!

Dortmund were brilliant but I was mostly watching Arsenal and, as good as Dortmund looked, Arsenal absolutely collapsed tonight. Their defence is an absolute joke. Not taking anything away from Dortmund but it was like the Brazil or Spain meltdown in the WC. It becomes difficult to gauge just how good the opposition are. Dortmund looked great but I'd want to see them against a fit for purpose defence before saying any more.

Ozil was appalling. Either he's the most overrated player out there or he really doesn't want to be at Arsenal. (Tend to believe the latter.) Right now, I think if Pep really does want him, Wenger would sell him in a heartbeat.

But it's the defence. Wenger's been criticised for years for not addressing it and he just won't. He's in love with midfielders, has some ideological objection towards strikers and sees defenders as a necessary evil.

i noticed arsenal's 4-1-4-1 today and wondered if wenger copies pep.

usually it's the younger one who emulates the old master but here i wonder.

maybe they are 2 persons of the same entity, like the holy trinity. don't know if there's a 3rd person somewhere (rodgers?) or if this is more like that myth aristophanes tells in plato's symposium, ha ha ha, the divided halves. anyway, enough metaphysics, the parallels are eery.

…

hold on hold on!!!!

BAYERN HAS BENATIA. he just didn't play last weekend and i forgot.

wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

[ although…. http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3875/...e-was-sabatini )

Wenger doesn't copy Pep. They're both fans of a tradition that predates both of them. Same with Rodgers. Pep's just the most successful in that tradition. If any of them have copied anyone it's Cruyff.

i get the hungary 56 --> total football --> tikitaka connection, but this is a closer following.

you know how the 3-5-2 was fashionable at the world cup?

now 4-1-4-1 with the tikitakos, who formerly championed the 4-3-3 (though i get the 4-1-4-1 is also the 4-3-3, but still).

although a couple of years ago (i think?) wenger had his 4-2-3-1 like several germans (bayern, dortmund).

maybe wenger is a bundesliga fan ha ha ha. he's alsatian after all.

--

ps found this: http://www.chicago-fire.com/blog/pos...-between-lines

Wow. Brilliant article. Thanks.

Despite his quite cerebral reputation, Wenger's never been very interesting tactically and does follow trends when it comes to things like formations. He's not known for making smart switches mid-game, or for playing in unusual formations (he used a quite rigid 4-4-2 during Arsenal's 'invincibles era'). His closest link to Pep is in his commitment to a quite technical passing game (regardless of formation) and for building teams more organically from within - although both seem to be moving away from that particular commitment pretty quickly.

Did you see the game tonight? I missed it.

that's what i was beginning to perceive

---

watching bayern try so hard and fail to squeeze a goal for almost a whole game was excruciating, but in the end it was a huge relief. boateng really wanted to score today, tried hard and finally got his reward-- he had a fantastic game.

annoyed that rafinha was put in, he's a nice kid and all but i've never seen him as up to bayern's level. let lahm be lahm, best fullback in the damn business, and stop fucking around. benatia seemed a bit confused but dante did worst almost allowing a goal by higuaín-- he's slowed down tremendously this past couple of years.

bayern clearly has a center back problem right now-- except for boateng, who had such a great day. that man is a tower. robben sparked things up tremendously when he came in for muller (who was unlucky today), supposedly he's not back in full form but the way he left defenders behind was pure magic-- really astonishing bursts of brilliance, it's like he had that ball magnetized.

i'm happy with the win, but i lost count of how many chances bayern missed or joe hart saved, and that was very frustrating. pep better find a higher-scoring formula soon because bayern fans ultimately don't give a shit about possession.

I watched 27 minutes of that bayern man city match today and some motherfucker owes me 27 minutes, straight up! Ok.. bayern's first goal attempt was nice and a bad ass save by man city goal keeper, but aside from that meh

I never much liked him in the past and still have issues with his diving, but either he's been brilliant for years and I just never noticed or he's really reached another level since joining Bayern. Serious contender for this years Ballon D'or?


Not really following the Bundesliga but I'm now coming round to the reality that he was simply the wrong man at the wrong time going to the wrong club to replace a manager who, as you've said all along, probably shouldn't have been replaced to begin with. Not sure where either Pep or Bayern will go with this but I'd be surprised if his contract gets renewed after 2016. Pep's problem is he's synonymous with a style that's had a bit of a crisis of credibility this past couple of years. He'll easily find work but he's certainly not the must-have messiah figure now that he was a few years ago. Meanwhile it'd be fascinating to see Mourinho go to Bayern.

i thought robben was tremendous since i saw him in the 2010 world cup (i had practically no access to tv football outside of world cups before that).

he was better than messi in the last one. he killed spain dead.

i get it that he's not charismatic and looks like a plucked chicken and he's a scandalous flopper but he's an amazing dribbler and he's incredibly fast-- and when he's on, he's really on.

if you can find a video of today's game, he came in pretty late so watch just the last 10 minutes or so. the way he'd cut into that defense was like a hot knife through butter. i was laughing in amazement. defied teh laws of physics.

bayern had a similar problem vs. stuttgart last weekend in that they ruled but scored a meager 2-0 for all their supreme dominance. today maybe it was chance that got in the way of more goals, but still. one of the problems is that lewandowski is not working out as he did w/ borussia-- karma, probably, ha ha ha.

I LOVE Robben, he is one of my all time fav players, as you said he defies rules of nature when he is on, michael cox said he was clearly that best individual performance of the WC.. I clearly should have watched the last 27 instead of first 27 but I dont get to choose my lunch and I rarely even have it open enough to watch a game

It's all subjective I suppose, how I can hate one cheat while loving another


Loveable rogue........................................... Rogue

Because Robben's "cheating" is a more common part of the game, for better or worse, where as Suarez is an unrepentant psychopath. Robben's flops stretch the rules, but most often are the result of exaggerating actual contact. Suarez either bites opposing players or handballs as a repeat offender of both no nos and further particularly implements these "strategies" only when his team is losing big games. I just don't get how Robben looks so damned old for a guy younger than me! I mean, did he do a lot of hard drugs or something?

Extremely pleased with Schalke holding the fort vs. Chelsea & squeezing out a point to take home.

What's up with all these low scoring Group matches?? I usually watch the group games because they are the most exciting.. usually the scoreless boring defense first games are in the knock out stage :(

Watched a rerun of the Bayern MC game . Thought you were a bit hard on Pep in this case. It's not like Bayern didn't produce any chances and you can't really blame the coach when the strikers aren't converting them, and Hart having a wonder-game. On another day, against a different keeper, they could've easily scored another 2 or 3. Agree that they looked better when Robben came on though.

Hart aside, MC were pretty disappointing. Toure had another terrible game. There's definitely something up with him.

Also Julian Draxler ... against Chelsea ... Wow!!!

Also also ... heard about this on a podcast. Menez's goal for Milan against Parma. Flat out amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnxS5OnxYOI

keeping and eye on a replay of as roma / cska moscow while doing a little work.

yes, i get it that moscow is a shit, easy-to-beat team, but roma isn't fucking around either, winning 5-1 like that, they mean business and everyone should be warned.

Porto has the potential to be a really great team. Unfortunately a lot of their talent comes from having promising youngsters loaned from europe's big boys (tello, casemiro, torres) and they will surely sell they're future superstars when they are ripe like they did with hulk, falcao, james, etc... jackson martinez is a future monster

thanks for that recommendation! i'll try to catch a game.

jackson martinez already had a great world cup-- and he's in his mid/late 20s if i recall

=========

bayern just managed to tie 0-0 vs. relegation-battling hamburg which had the worst defense last year

this after bringing lewandowski, xabi alonso and gotze from the bench.

they had almost 80% possession but no goals. how crap is that.

i hope dortmund does better later today

Jeez you'd think this Bayern Munich team are the worst in their history. 0-0 draws happen, even if it's the biggest team and the worst team in the league. If anything the credit should go to Hamburger for managing to hold on against a team that did 15 shots to their 4.

Stop expecting every game to be a big goal scoring win. This isn't blinking Yank Football or Basketball.

fuck that. man u beat qpr 4-0 last week yes? is that basketball? no-- it's what a top team does with a relegation team.

i'm looking ahead at roma too. that's not going to be easy (moscow yes). it's a tough CL group. can't win without scoring.

hamburg did 4 shots? twice they almost really fucked neuer the libero (don't get me wrong, i love neuer, but dante...). bayern's shots in the 2nd half were weak shit (i only saw the 2nd half-- weak).

oh im late for the dortmund game

And drew 0-0 to bloody Burnley the week before.

nope, in basketball the losing team, even if dominated by 50 points still score at least SOME POINTS, a 4-0 beat down is more like a 35-0 domination in an NFL game.. where as you mentioned, and underclass team faces an elite team similar to the Falcons recent demolition of what used to be the Bucaneers ;)

don't know who is that or who played

but watching dortmund's bench battle mainz (half time right now) is way more exciting than watching fc hollywood act constipated.

Exactly.*

How about West Ham! Lolerpool.

*to expand-the lowest of teams can hold off teams that should by rights be winning. What is it? Goals happen on average every 60 minutes if I remember rightly.

you heard about real madrid's latest result?


no idea again lol


i understand that but to watch a team hold the ball 80% of the time and then melt down like wusses is an exercise in frustration.

dortmund back on! nice match it's on BT for you i think.

demonrail's team. 2-1 to West Ham after scoring two goals in the first ten minutes. Excellent stuff.

FUKCING 3-1!! GET IN

Just seen the Dortmund result...

damn, mainz just beat dortmund 2-0!!!! ha ha ha ha.

it was 0-0, so kloppo brought in immobile and mkhitarian, and instead of scoring they got scored on. okazaki (sp?) enabled by jairo (fresh from sevilla) opened for mainz. then immobile fucked up a penalty kick. the second mainz goal was gonna be similar (jairo->okazaki) but subotic's substitute (mathias ginter) scored an own goal and the crowd thanked him ha ha ha.

what a fun game even though i wanted dortmund to win

--

oh, west ham beat liverpool?

demonyo must be doing somersaults

ps a couple of writeups

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ndesliga-game/

http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/ne...0000302242.php

Demonrail hasn't answered on the American Football thread so I'll ask the question here..

What is there to lose in futbol rivalries like the Superclassico or the Bavarian Derby??

We were discussing the rivalries within the divisional format of NFL and how it gives added meaning to to otherwise less meaningful regular season games. Me and rob mentioned we like NFL rivalries better than futbol rivalries, and demonrail insisted futbol rivalries are more meaningful.

Now aside from IN TOURNAMENTS, what exactly is the substantive meaning of these rivalries in the context of the table system? Again, within divisional format, demonrail mentioned Packers-Bears rivalry, every NFL fan knows the Packers and Bears are going to play each other TWO times every single regular season, and that essentially if a team can win both they clinch the playoffs by taking their division and hurting their rivals chances in the loss column. Even if the they split the games, it could still knock one of them out of the playoffs. Also, say one of them is for sure not making the playoffs, by winning a key division game against a rival they can ensure that NEITHER of them make the playoffs.. So what are otherwise low-importance games become some of the biggest games of the season.

So outside of tournament play, what exactly do Boca Juniors or River Plate stand to lose when playing each other?

Surprisingly watched a few MLS games and I honestly enjoyed them all!

I can only speak from what I know so I'll chip in my 2 pence worth. Rivalries between certain teams have been going for nigh on a hundred years in a lot of cases and the original reason is lost on a lot of fans. It's just pushed into them from when fans were kids. For example, if you ask an Arsenal fan why they have a rivalry with Tottenham (besides the regional reason) a lot of them wouldn't know.

Some rivalries like the Celtic/Rangers fixtures are more based on religion (Protestants and Catholics) and leads to crazy levels of violence.

What is their to lose? Honestly, it just comes down to a tribal spirit. One team having a rivalry with another just cos they play at the other end of town. Bear in mind for a lot of football fans football is all they have (trust me I know enough of them who's conversation rarely goes further than football. Sad really). And if their team loses to their rivals there is nothing worse. They want to close the curtains, put the duvet over their heads and sleep. Either that or kick someones head in. I'm more of the former.

What is there for the team to lose? Nothing really. Bring on the next game.

This sums it up better than I could

Sorry I wasn't more eloquent. I suspect demonrail can put it better than I did.

BTW, it's the everton/ liverpool derby next week. God I'm dreading it already.

H8Kurdt is spot on. The meaningfulness of rivalries in football is far more fan oriented. It's ritualistic and tied in with local identity far more than it is to a club's success or failure. Although some rivalries between the elite clubs creep into it. The Classico is between the two biggest clubs in Spain, as is the case with the old firm derby, so while the roots of their conflict might be social, winning those derbies has often been the difference between second place or league champions. But for the most part football rivalries are exactly how H8Kurdt describes them.


At 2-1 I was far too nervous to enjoy it but when the 3rd went in it was beautiful. Lovely stuff.