Sonic Youth Gossip - So many ladies

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Sonic Youth Gossip (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/index.php)

- Non-Sonics (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

- - So many ladies (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=86874)

Trama

01.25.2013 07:29 PM

I actually have a problem with the video. I'm outright annoyed with the collectivist approach. Who's to say what's empowering to others? And how's anyone confortable with the idea that someone should avoid their sexual qualities for the sake of taking a bullet for the team?

knox	01.25.2013 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Watched the video knox. Paid attentione and thought deeply about the ideas expounded within. I share most of her viewpoints and already actively live my life as best I can along the principles the speaker describes. There is a difference however, between sexual objectification and sexual attraction. One can control the former but one cannot control the latter. I personally find Indian features beautiful and intelligence even more so. This is why I do not feel my original post about the many studious and beautiful Indian and Pakistani women at the Library to be objectification. I still do not. Sexual attraction happens whether objectification exists or not and is as big a part of being human as anything else.
You are free to find my words offensive but to expect me not to defend myself is a bit much, no?
Like I said before, fight the good fight. Confronting me about my post is a waste of your energy. I am actually your compatriot in this fight. And so is sychfriends as well.

You have no idea how patronizing this sounds.

knox	01.25.2013 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trama

I actually have a problem with the video. I'm outright annoyed with the collectivist approach. Who are we to say what's empowering to others? And how's anyone confortable with the idea that someone should avoid their sexual qualities as in to "take a bullet for the team"?

Are you uncomfortable with data too?
And I give this question back to you: who are you to say what's empowering to women?
I don't think you've experienced what's like to 'be in a woman' among those images/messages.

I feel like I'm hitting a wall.
You don't seem to be able to understand that objetification is not sexuality.
An object is NOT human, it's not a life.
That they're almost opposite things, really.
It's actually pretty scary to see how common that misconception is.

knox	01.25.2013 08:10 PM

Since you people only listen to men, do yourselves a favor please:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td1PbsV6B80

knox	01.25.2013 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glice

Imagine being arbitrarily designated as an inescapably objectified category; imagine that even your intelligence can't escape that objectification. "Hey, I don't just treat bitches as meat for their asses - I do it for their minds too".

It's really nice when a dog is not only cute but it can do tricks too, isn't it?

oooh imagine an exotic breed, what a thrill.

keep poppin pimples

01.25.2013 08:14 PM

haha 'collectivist approach'

do you read alot of ayn rand books bro? lol

Trama

01.25.2013 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

Are you uncomfortable with data too?
And I give this question back to you: who are you to say what's empowering to women?

Noone, to women or others, that's why I don't try to, like apparently you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

I feel like I'm hitting a wall.
You don't seem to be able to understand that objetification is not sexuality.

Actually I think it's quite the contrary. It seems that you don't want to accept the fact that objectification IS part of sexuality, and that the fact that people do strip away others from humanity for the sake of pleasure and play doesn't necessarily equates with sexism.

Trama

01.25.2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep poppin pimples

haha 'collectivist approach'

do you read alot of ayn rand books bro? lol

Yes, as in opposed to an individualist approach. As it should be in regards to sexuality. Or are you opposed to individual freedom and individual choice bro?

Fuck off.

knox	01.25.2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trama

Yes, as in opposed to an individualist approach. As it should be in regards to sexuality. Or are you opposed to individual freedom and individual choice bro?

Fuck off.

Hold on.

Talking about messages in the media is supressing individual approach and choice? Big loophole there.

I don't have any choice regarding being subjected to these notions, images or judged in accordance to them.

knox	01.25.2013 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trama

Noone, to women or others, that's why I don't try to, like apparently you do.

Actually I think it's quite the contrary. It seems that you don't want to accept the fact that objectification IS part of sexuality, and that the fact that people do strip away others from humanity for the sake of pleasure and play doesn't necessarily equates with sexism.

Did you seriously say that?
Isn't stripping others from humanity THE VERY CORE of opression?
Or is it not pleasureable to have sex with humans?

Next thing you'll say social sciences are working against personal freedom.
This is a whole new level of surreal.

knox	01.25.2013 08:40 PM

it's like saying work cannot exist without slavery.
let's think about that

floatingslowly

01.25.2013 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

But you don't even have to.

ah...but I wanted to (and now have).

I find it interesting her points made about hyper-sexualization in advertising and wonder how many men realize that they are being preyed upon (in commercial sense) by corporations banking on their penis over-riding their central cortex. of course, this is only a minor manifestation of an even greater problem, but part of the problem nonetheless (much like how the hyper-violence in today's videogames has a trickle-down effect on those who are prone to suggestion). these ads will not turn everyone (or maybe even most) into a rapist (or mass-murderer) but their insideous properties surely have a negative impact on the general psyche of all.

that said, I very rarely watch tv.

Trama

01.25.2013 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

I think I made clear in my initial post as to what I was referring to.

Diesel

01.25.2013 08:45 PM

After the video just to clear up; are we not allowed to find certain races visually attractive? Or was it to not judge people based on looks?

Trama

01.25.2013 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

This is a whole new level of surreal.

Go to the SM/Leather/Fetish community for example and tell them it's surreal.

knox	01.25.2013 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trama

I think I made clear in my initial post as to what I was referring to.

I actually have no idea what you're saying saying but it seems that you don't have any idea what you're saying so it's a bizarre cycle.

knox	01.25.2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trama

Go to the SM/Leather/Fetish community for example and tell them it's surreal

Am I trying to tell anyone to stop with their fetishes?
No, go ahead, nobody's stopping you.
I'm saying it's be very cool for people to stop publicly making people feeling objectified when they didn't CONSENT to it.
The word is CONSENT CONSENT CONSENT.
You should know that if you're reading those communities, it's their golden rule.

knox	01.25.2013 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel

After the video just to clear up; are we not allowed to find certain races visually attractive? Or was it to not judge people based on looks?

You should probably try to keep it to yourself when you're not sure how people might feel about your comments or if they welcome that sort of thing instead of doing it to get high fives.

It's probably not ok to be in your office, for example, talking out loud about someone's ass when women are around.

I.e.: it's possible to find someone attractive without shouting at them as they walk down the street.

It's this whole thing about men having to do it constantly and publicly to each other to obtain reassurance about their masculinity that makes women feel shit.

I don't think it's too hard to understand...

floatingslowly

01.25.2013 08:55 PM

also, in relation to your post that I've quoted above, I sincerely appreciate your trust in me, but I am far from a perfect person.

despite my imperfectness, I strive for betterment and believe that I will never truly find myself above criticism or insightful self-assement so as to be not only more of a better spouse, friend, or father, but as a better human being, and man.

Trama

01.25.2013 08:57 PM

Did you just backtrack on your comment? Because a moment ago you were pointing out how surreal it is.

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