I personally liked their last few albums (esp nurse, not so much nyc... murray street is somewhere in my middle). I don't know how much of jims hand was in the creation cookie jar... but it still tasted good.

Also, I wish I hadn't read so much about ripped on this forum... i feel stragne about it now... I'm sampling waste and pink steam right now... that phaser is very strong... and so is the song. Poppy in a good.

HAHAHA!!

I never said Jim "ruined" SY, but I don't think Jim necessarily made Sonic Youth any "better" than they were before he came into the equation, and isn't that the whole part of bringing in additional people, to keep from getting stagnant?

What is great about Sonic Youth?
For me, I will always side with the 85-88 SY but also Goo through Washing Machine. What I liked about SY was the guitar, the guitar, the guitar, and the language Thurston & Lee spoke to eachother when they played off eachother. Maybe a 3rd guitar(whether it was Kim or Jim) was a bit too much, kinda "baroque'd" it? I've personally never been a big fan of 3+ guitarists in a band. SY were also about mixing melody with great guitar action.

Rather Ripped is by far my favorite SY album probably since Thousand Leaves, and I'm starting to like this album even more than A Thousand leaves because of what I feel SY should be for my own personal liking. I never liked the huge "epic" songs that were very long & drawn out except for Daydream Nation. I honestly didn't even like A Thousand Leaves very much and saw a noticeable difference to the approach SY took in their songwriting.

What I see in RATHER RIPPED that was lacking in the last 3 SY albums is:

1. Direct and more simple. I think if you can make your point across as short & sweet, then that's much better than "overcomplicating" things for the sake of "not looking boring". This goes with everything from art, music, even food.

2. Thurston & Lee's guitar. I think they play off eachother much better, in a more fun and aggressive way. I also love the riffs, something that's also been lacking in the last 3 SY albums, a great riff, something to "hang your hat" on.

3. Spirit. I think this album has a more renewed "spirit" that seems more lively, more fun, and more enjoyable than the last 3 SY albums.

I definitely hear reflections of tunic & and cinderella's and some dirty in there but recorded & mixed with the same approach of the last couple albums.

From my understanding, SY might have thought that Jim may have just been a "little different" for their band in the sense that nobody in SY was formally trained at their instrument and Jim was. That does make a difference. You can tell an artist who had not gone to Art School apart from the artist who went to art school easily by their approach and how they see/understand. SY also missed what was great about their past records, straight ahead songs with aggressive overtones.

I definitely hear guitar work on RATHER RIPPED that I haven't heard in the last 2 SY albums.

Personally, I thought the album was just "ok" the first time I heard it. Then I was working on projects at 4am and ended up listening to it on repeat like 5 times, I was begining to hear hooks, riffs, and transitions that were catching my ear. Before I know it, I'm liking half the songs, and right now, I love probably 85-90% of the album with the other 10-15% a high "likeness".

I'm just loving this album more and more. It definitely takes multiple plays to like, but once you start liking the songs, you'll find this album to be a true mark of one of the greatest bands to ever have been formed...easily.

A great band will have "ups & downs". It's how they rebound that determines how great a band is.

SY have definitely (in my book) taken a huge step forward. I feel like SY can make another 5 albums effortlessly.

There is no way that Jim O'Rourke ruined SY. If anything he saved them, as they were losing their way a little with Experimental Jet Set, Washing Machine and A Thousand Leaves, while the three that follow have been consistently good albums rather than patchily good ones.

Shouldn't this be under the "Unpopular Music Opinion" thread?

It's my age. This modern music, it's all just noise, can't hear the words, blah blah blah. ;)

I'm listening to RR as I type this and I see what Khchris' means by the repeated listens needed to extract the quality of the album. I do, however, disagree with the notion that Jim O'rourke was a negative influence on the group. I believe he simply brought more to the band and they needed it at the time. ATL, Murray Street are some of my favorites and I like the laid back approach the band had on those records. RR is definetly more calculated and poppy sounding, I'm not saying SY are those things, thats just how it sounds to me. Is it good, yes, every listen increases the level of quality, and maybe it was good for SY to purge their system from the era of ATL,MS,SN. Perhaps in 5 years we will all look back and say this was the "right" move for them to make. After all, they would have done this album the same with Jim O'Rourke, this due his "hired hand" status and not a total songwriter.

I LIKED Jim, so don't you people bad mouth him. He's an amazing musician. He also added some much needed grounding to the band. Unfortunately, he is no longer in the band, but all of that is the band's business; not ours. I will miss him, but it is also comforting to see Sonic Youth the way they have been for the past 20 years. The "classic" Sonic Youth if you will.

Well, I view Jim leaving as just a parting due to interest.

I am glad at how things turned out though. I was extremely excited to see what Jim could bring to SY since I was a huge GDS fan as well as a fan of Brise Glace, but I guess I was expecting a more aggressive SY with him in the band which never really panned out.

I think I'm glad at how things have turned out because the album sounds more closer to the SY that I personally like more. I never did like NYG&F and to this day, I still try to pop that disc in and it is the only SY album that I really can't even listen all the way through. It is the first album that I really thought had some very boring songs, but that's just me. I also didn't like Murray St but Nurse was better.

I'm really just glad SY got back to melody with aggressive guitar and overtones. That's why I loved Evol, sister, DDN, Goo, Dirty and even Washing Machine more than any of the previous 4 albums.

But I guess it just depends on when you got into SY. I think majority of the fans that got into SY around Washing Machine and before will like this album much more than those who got into SY around NYG&F and after.

nahh, i dont think he ruined SY, but at the same time i think the band could've done without him. I question his involvement really, OK he brought another guitar layer and played bass when Kim wasnt but why fix it if it aint broken?

True that

something to say on this subject ....

Did any of you guys see the last tour!!! Jim playing along on Stones... it fucking rocked !! Let alone what he added to songs like Eric's Trip...

I don't think anyone who witnessed the shows should downplay the value added in live performances... it would have been good without him.. but It fucking rocked my zweet ass off

I love everything SY has done, I didn't see them slipping along the way I see them as breaking new grounds with their sounds...

Well, as far as I'm concerned 'Murray Steet' is narrowly the finest LP ever, by anyone, so I like Jim. He also added genuine freshness to some of the older songs onstage, and I think it's nice to have that little distinct era within the Sonic Youth canon.

this "indie bullshit" movement was spearheaded by sonic youth. does that mean they ruined music just like "jim ruined sonic youth"?

i don't think Jim really ruined SY... Murray is one of the greatests SY albums

i think it's too bad Jim left the band he had a great influence on sonic youth.

i always thought thurston moore was the one ruining sonic youth

GET THE FUCKER OUT OF THE BAND!!!