I think that that's fair enough. However, whilst most musicians will never be in a position to affect significant change on a political level, They are in a position to do something, however little, culturally. By choosing to reflect their communities in the way that some of them do seems to me to be a bit of a wasted opportunity on their behalf.

I think it's simply a case of living in a deeply troubled time: one that's suffering from a lack of any great leadership, be it governmental or cultural.

Absolutely. The only thing is that grime was born in gritty environments and for the most part it sounds exactly like it does because it's influenced by them and it draws life from them. There are exceptions, though.Take Dizzie Rascal, for example: his music is both a description of those environments but also tells you that something creative and positive can come out of them. Not all kids from the same community think alike.

It'll be interesting to see how far Dizzie Rascal can go. I get the feeling that he's not that popular with your average Grime fan anymore. He's in danger of becoming a bit of a Goldie/Roni Size in that respect.

Size is still well respected on the local scene - I would suggest that it's only people outside of the local scene that would bother to criticise him. Locally, he's a hero. I can only imagine the same being true for the heads of Hackney Wick and Ratchet.

Roni Size still has massive respect in London's Jungle/D&B scene for his contribution to that scene, but there was a sense here that he took his foot off the gas a bit during the Reprezent period when it was Krust who began to emerge as the one doing the more interesting stuff. But don't get me wrong, Size is a total legend.

this thread is very interesting

I suppose I just get frustrated when artists happily take credit when they're being praised for what they do, but when they're criticised they just blame 'society'.

I'm just looking forward to the day when I get to hear this at an awards ceremony:

"And this year's winner for best Rap artist is ... SOCIETY!"

OK, if a rap artist called Society emerges doing a track called, "Don't Blame Society (Praise Me)" (b/w "Sonic Youth Fans Don't Go Round Mugging People, Blud"), we all owe demonrail666 a beer.