Sonic Youth Gossip - Are we living in a police state?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tesla69

People of color in the U.S. have lived under martial law for many years. only now the Surveillance State is waving its mighty eye onto everyone else.

But goddamn people in the US are getting so stupid, rude and brutal a police state may be needed just to keep some semblance of society going. Somewhere someone said it was ok to change your baby's dirty diapers on your table in a restaurant full of diners. Is it just me or do you not change your baby's dirty diapers in the middle of the dining table? But people do this all the time these days. Its always easier and more profitable to go after morality laws than corruption. Nab the kids smoking pot and ruin their lives is much safer than busting some corrupt politicians who have access to your credit records etc. Who do you go to if the feds shut off your pensions and seal you bank accounts. Those people who get you off the no fly list? (soon to include the no work list)

Luckily we dont have those problems here.
We just have the ones that give more rights to ethnic minorities than the indigenous population, pot is down from a class b to a class c drug and you only get cautioned for it, and we dont allow shitty nappies on restaurant tables.
Hooray for Tony Blair!:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbradley

I live in San Francisco.

cool?

If you fail to see the relevance, you should come on over and ask any of the homeless about their opinions of the government. But take something to eat. It may be a while.

While I agree with almost everything said in the first post, I'm am now officially sick of people telling me that it's a police state, that are rights are gone, blah blah blah. If this is actually a revelation to you, you're an idiot. I was angry when the Patriot Act got passed and my protests were taken for granted. Now I realize just ranting about does absolutely shit but annoy people. If you are so angry about whatever police state, do something about instead of wasting people's time with yesterday's news.

indeed.
Do something.
There are no effects without action.

The only thing required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbradley

While I agree with almost everything said in the first post, I'm am now officially sick of people telling me that it's a police state, that are rights are gone, blah blah blah. If this is actually a revelation to you, you're an idiot. I was angry when the Patriot Act got passed and my protests were taken for granted. Now I realize just ranting about does absolutely shit but annoy people. If you are so angry about whatever police state, do something about instead of wasting people's time with yesterday's news.

It's no revelation man. But seriously, there's no need to speak down to people who still want to talk about things. How about instead of telling people what to do, and what not to do, you just ignore it and go on with your life?

P.S. is there something special about the homeless in San Francisco?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbradley

I'm am now officially sick of people telling me that it's a police state, that are rights are gone, blah blah blah. If this is actually a revelation to you, you're an idiot. I was angry when the Patriot Act got passed and my protests were taken for granted. Now I realize just ranting about does absolutely shit but annoy people. If you are so angry about whatever police state, do something about instead of wasting people's time with yesterday's news.

So how long have you worked for the federal government or one of its contractors as a disinformation specialist?

"A critical slide in the presentation of Rudolph Giuliani is displayed next. It should be noted that Giuliani agreed with Christine Todd Whitman that the air at ground zero was safe. Giuliani was appointed U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York in 1983. “So he knew a thing or two about criminal investigation procedures,” Torin adds. Knowing that, one has to wonder why he “sent more than 99% of the steel from the WTC to China and Korea in violation of proper chain of evidence.” Not only that, it was sent overseas at a price undercutting a New Jersey company. A company in New Jersey offered to pay $0.56 per ton, but it was sent out of the country to be smelted before experts could analyze the steel for signs of explosives for $0.50 per ton. Giuliani is clearly one of the perpetrators behind the crimes of 9/11, and he was confronted recently by a truth squad led by Luke Rudkowski. They wanted to know why his story has changed five times about his activities on the morning of 9/11. "
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...0707expert.htm

I've yet to see any good answer as to why crypto has changed his convictions so drastically. he just keeps dodging the question (I've asked over and over).

although I never really subscribed to the previous RAH RAH RED STATE mentalilty of the OLD crypto, I appreciated the fact that he was able to have views that deviated from the internet norm.

without any explanation, the NEW crypto just seems to be either pandering to or trolling the libs.

I guess watching people get spun up makes for good entertainment, but until I can see why there's been such a radical change is crypto's political dogma, I'm calling bullshit on all these newfangled idears.

the only police state i would like to live in is one where the cast of the police academy films are in charge. ok enough with the police academy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nature scene

I wasn't seriously telling him what to do or not to do. It was a frustrated counter rant of my own driven mostly by emotion (see frustration). I would have thought that first sentence of the post would have given that away.

I'm just generally upset with doom-sayers that are so late in the game as they are now. It's not solving anything. Just more paranoia upon pre-existing paranoia. I'm glad that they're coming around to the fact but "I told you so" doesn't cut it. People like these are more comfortable "revealing the facts" on a message board than actually protesting.

I'm not paranoid, I KNOW everyone is out to get me

Quote:

Originally Posted by tesla69

So how long have you worked for the federal government or one of its contractors as a disinformation specialist?

I don't even see the relevance, even for an attack. My not seeing the point of a rant thread so late after the fact makes me a "disinformation specialist"? Am I keeping the man down by not letting a couple people discuss the obvious on an internet forum?

I refuse to be controlled by an authoritarian ANYTHING.

you're one of those people that stops liking bands once other people find out about them, aren't you?

You're seriously comparing one's awareness of one's government's actions to scene cred? I like to think that the former is far more important and urgent. But if you see political awareness as a hobby rather than a duty, then I could understand such a comment. Unfortunately, if you see politics thusly, my opinion is that you are a poor citizen.

You have the emergence in human society
Of this thing thats called the state
What is the state? the state is this organized bureaucracy
It is the po-lice department. it is the army, the navy
It is the prison system, the courts, and what have you
This is the state -- it is a repressive organization
But the state -- and gee, well, you know,
Youve got to have the police, cause..
If there were no police, look at what youd be doing to yourselves!
Youd be killing each other if there were no police!
But the reality is..
The police become necessary in human society
Only at that junction in human society
Where it is split between those who have and those who aint got

who said i was being serious?

i'm not getting into a pissing contest with you, no matter how much you want to see my dick.

have a good one

The government can monitor your phone calls and can read your e-mails and open your snail mail.

So?

The government can access records of your large financial transactions, such as buying a house.

Again, so?

Law enforcement officers can bust into your home when you're not there, riffle through your belongings, plant a recording device on your computer, and leave without notifying you for at least thirty days -- and maybe a lot more.

Yeah, with a warrant. They don't care what I am doing. If they did, then that would mean I was doing something suspicious that I probably shouldn't be doing, which I'm not.

You no longer have the right to protest where the president or vice president can see you, or at major public events when they aren't even present.

Good, protests are annoying, it's not like they accomplish anything except for starting riots and big fights.

Law enforcement officers can now monitor you in public if you are merely exercising your political rights.

Monitor is a fancy word for "look at," and people look at me all the time. Stop being so paranoid.

They can infiltrate your political organizations.

Don't have one, don't care.

And they can keep track of you at your place of worship. The government can find out from bookstores and libraries the material you've been reading, and the bookstore owner and the librarian can't talk about it, except to their lawyers, for a whole year -- or more.

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses, so trust me, we are used to it. It sort of comes with the territory.

The government can hold you in preventive detention for months on end as a "material witness."

I'd probably have to witness something for them to want to do this.

If you're not a citizen the government can deport you on a technicality or for mere political association.

I like how people who act like they hate this country use fear of deportation as a claim against it. Isn't that oxymoronic?

If you're not a citizen the government can label you an "enemy combatant" and send you to secret prisons around the world, where you may never see the light of day again -- much less a lawyer or a judge. And even if you are a citizen, the government can label you an enemy combatant and hold you in solitary confinement here in the United States.

Ok, you are talking about the government the way I talked about police when I was 5. "They can arrest you and take you to jail!" Yeah, if you DO something. Just stop trying to stand out like a sore thumb and they will leave you alone. They aren't going to come after you just for the heck of it, out of pure boredom. "Hey, I'm bored, let's send that guy over there to Guantanamo Bay."

Under George W. Bush's interpretation of the president's powers during the so-called war on terror he can do just about whatever he wants. He cites the Authorization for Use of Military Force bill, which Congress passed on September 18, 2001, as the justification for this enormous leeway.

Yeah, it's been a rough 7 years. Even speaking as a politically neutral person, I'll admit that. But hang in there for one more year. He can go back to pumping gas and making under the table deals with terrorists, and you can get back to the next movement in your everlasting quest for finding something to complain about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterthefact

So?

Again, so?

Silly human has no regard for his own Constitution. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Really, the we don't lose our rights through some sudden millitary coup. What happens is that they get slowly erodded over time, little by litte. Hence the need to be concerned about the little things (little to you at least), like constitutionally illegal wiretaping.