Agreed, he's not bad, but I think he just does the job.
The same for David Lovering from the Pixies.

Noooooo !!!!!!:mad:
Are you kiddin' ??? I can't stand drum machines !!! Please, don't talk about this shit !!!
I prefer a bad drummer (like Gary Young from Pavement, he was not so bad though) to a drum machine.

not always, some times a drum machine made the band what they were (like say, BIG BLACK), but as a general rule, youre correct

the kills would sound stupid if they used a live drummer.

In my music, I kinda have to use a drum machine, because it's very very difficult to 1) find a drummer who can play what I want, 2) find a drummer who can play what I want LIVE, 3) record a good drum sound without it sounding muffled and ridiculous... However, I program drum machine beats in such a way that they don't sound like a boring ass drum machine. And really... I mean, look at the first Necrophagist record, which is all drum machine but sounds BETTER than a real drummer... In this day and age, no band should use a boring ass old drum machine, they should at least make it somewhat interesting... a drum machine can be fine in a band as long as the band doesn't want to do improvisations involving drums and stuff...

Still, the "human" element is what makes drumming interesting to me... drums are my favorite instrument, and occassionally I'll notice drummers who speed up just a tad or slow down just a tad, unintentionally.. it doesn't really matter, but that excitement of listening, of knowing they could miss a beat at any second makes the music constantly interesting to me.

Machines work fine, though, but most bands don't need them. And I really wish I didn't need one, but that's how the world works for me right now.

But yeah, Charles Gocher Jr.? Easily one of the best drummers ever and probably my favorite drum SOUND ever. Totally underrated...

I'd have to disagree about David Lovering, by the way. His drumming was actually pretty irregular in parts.. I liked that he always allowed plenty of space for the other instruments... good drummer.

So you're saying that Japanese drummers are often amazing?

First of all that's a lot of crap. Second, you are fetishising the Japanese as people and as musicians.

Eh? I'm not fetishizing shit, listen to many Japanese rock bands -- technically and creatively, they're usually pretty perfect. A lot of my favorite drummers are Japanese.

Gary Young is the only drummer I can think of who I disliked.

He so desperately wanted to be Keith Moon, but succeeded only in being a TWAT.

i don't mind the drummer but i hate the drum sound on band of susans records

Agreed.

I think they got the drum sound right on the last album at least.

That reminds me... the drums on MBV's "Loveless"... I know it's actually usually a drum machine that was sampled from the real drummer's parts.. but yeah. Sounds like complete shit in every single way.

Yeah certain drum sounds on MBV's Loveless I never liked either. They are very reminiscent of the time they were produced cause at that point you had this cross-pollination between rave/dance music and indie rock bands. You couldn't move for insipid guitar rock with that vaguely dancey drumming in the background.

that's why i hated "soon" when i first heard it, i hated the whole acid jazz beat or whatever the fuck they were going for.

but in the context, i love the drums in loveless, myself.