I actually feel quite the opposite.. you can't dance to biggie's shit, it is just some plain ol story tellin rap with some oldies'ish eastcoast boring boring beats..
just the dude talking over the thing like a william burroughs spoken word recording..

whereas westcoast beats have the meanest groove, you can straight dance it up! and to those who don't remember, 2pac is FROM the eastcoast, and used to chill and rap with Biggie as well...


I think you are judging Pac to harshly in regards to his school and art habits, he still grew up in the projects, and still did all the bullshit project kids do.. have you been to the p.j.z? They are full of bright, artistic kids, who also sell crack and carry guns..

since when did crack selling, gun packing motherfuckers have to be art free? I have known a few of these kinds of people who were far from "super thug" by popular image, but still "thugged" it up quite a bit.. I know a straight Probation Officer who paid for his college career selling big weight in crack (and still does, goes to work as a PO, comes home and packs a nine on the corner).. and a few other gangsters whose contrast between their day-time lives and late night lives would surprise you..

I've seen a police officer sell crack on the corner of the street in a hood in Baltimore. Quite shocking, really.

i love 2pacalypse, dont have any of the other ones anymore, nor do i posess the need. he was good in digital underground for a while too, when he was a wierdo art student who loved hip hop and funk. digitial underground was actually a lot like parliament. pretty neat group.

I wasn't judging Pac. I won't deny his talent. It just has always seemed to me that the Thug Life philosophy he touted wasn't really what he represented, but how he wanted himself to feel/be seen. If that makes any sense. Maybe it's just be preference for East Coast/NYC rap manifesting in trying to downplay Pac/NWA/Dre/Snoop etc

thats only partially correct..

while of course, much of 2pac's art represents a kind of idealism, he
really went out in the streets, whether in the East, or here in the West, and worked with gangsters to create a kind of diplomacy.

"Thug life" originally was a kind of code of conduct, 2pac was trying to be a kind of diplomat for hood culture, to create kind of unity through the common ghetto experience. This is straight from the Black Panthers roots (from his mother and her family)..

further, whether in his youth, or especially here in the west from 88-96, 2pac ran with nothing but motherfuckers doin dirt, and that is how he got smoked in the end, by those same folks, cuz its as e-40 said, "cuz misery loves company, and company loves misery, and money causes jealousy and envy.."

My entire point is that you misjudge the image of Tupac, and are not looking at the biography. Tupac lived in the hood, rolled with hood folkz, and did what the hood does, and the fact that he was also artistic and moderately successful before gangster rap should not somehow discredit his "street" credentials. That is just not fair to doubt a person's experiences, simply to compare them to another person.. and further, it is silly and naive to compare the "gangsterism" of gangsters..

suchfriends, you are correct sir. I consider myself a longtime follower of his work. He was by far one of the most compelling artists of his generation. He understood art and marketing to a level that consumed and ultimately destroyed him.

And I'm glad you actually took the time to understand important points such as the Thug Life philosophy and all. When taken at face value, often much of his art was misunderstood by the greatest common denominator.

I've always thought the opposite. Look at the most acclaimed New York hiphop albums from the early-mid 90s: Nas: Illmatic, Biggie: Ready To Die, Mobb Deep: Infamous, Wu Tang and the Native Tongues stuff. It's music for rainy days, grey and violent with a touch of jazz, for a pessimistic-but-blunted-and-numbed atmosphere.

And the West Coast can be summarised with one term: G-funk. I don't know if it's danceable but it probably works well at barbeques.

As for the dancing thing, I always think Biggie's Juicy is a great dance track, at least for the larger male. Slow and easy to follow without the need tp expell any unnecessary effort. Biggie was clearly looking out for all the plus sized gentleman. Respect.

Even U2 is cooler than Tupac.

you sir, know your rap and hip hop very well..

T.H.U.G. life is real shit..
most people don't know shit about it cuz its kinda a local thing that didn't get as much coverage as "hit em up" and the whole rivalry nonsense..

Tupac personally mediated in a Watts/South LA turf war between the Rollin 60s and the Eight Treys and from this evolved the THUG life platform, with all kinds of rules and regulation much like the Southsiderz have within their own system of gangs, but a kind of code of conduct which is entirely missing from black gang culture. Rules like no drive-bys on kids, respecting families and households, not robbing each other, no snitching, sharing the $$$ with the community, etc.

Hispanic gang culture is all about following the rules, and this is a kind of flavor Tupac was personally trying to bring to black street gangs in Los Angeles, specifically with his own street connections through Deathrow (which was more a drug dealing laundering scheme than a record label)

Don't associate that T.H.U.G. life shit thug life is against them

1. All new Jacks to the game must know: a) He’s going to get rich. b) He’s going to jail. c) He’s going to die.
2. Crew Leaders: You are responsible for legal/financial payment commitments to crew members; your word must be your bond.
3. One crew’s rat is every crew’s rat. Rats are now like a disease; sooner or later we all get it; and they should too.
4. Crew leader and posse should select a diplomat, and should work ways to settle disputes. In unity, there is strength!
5. Carjacking in our Hood is against the Code.
6. Slinging to children is against the Code.
7. Having children slinging is against the Code.
8. No slinging in schools.
9. Since the rat Nicky Barnes opened his mouth; ratting has become accepted by some. We’re not having it.
10. Snitches is outta here.
11. The Boys in Blue don’t run nothing; we do. Control the Hood, and make it safe for squares.
12. No slinging to pregnant Sisters. That’s baby killing; that’s genocide!
13. Know your target, who’s the real enemy.
14. Civilians are not a target and should be spared.
15. Harm to children will not be forgiven.
16. Attacking someone’s home where their family is known to reside, must be altered or checked.
17. Senseless brutality and rape must stop.
18. Our old folks must not be abused.
19. Respect our Sisters. Respect our Brothers.
20. Sisters in the Life must be respected if they respect themselves.
21. Military disputes concerning business areas within the community must be handled professionally and not on the block.
22. No shooting at parties.
23. Concerts and parties are neutral territories; no shooting!
24. Know the Code; it’s for everyone.
25. Be a real ruff neck. Be down with the code of the Thug Life.
26. Protect yourself at all times.

as laid out at the Truc Picnic meeting between the rolling 60s Crips and Eight Trey pirus

this is serious shit here..

I don't get down with any of this gangsta stuff. I'll never understand it, I suppose- I know in its context it is probably really fantastic but as an outsider it just doesn't do anything for me. Gangsta is an alternate universe to my middle class whitey brain. Thank God?

yes.. in regards to the t.h.u.g. life code, this is important shit for people who gang bang and sell drugs and live in these conditions to come to mutual agreements, because before these kinds of meetings, being a gangster and slanging were a wild west free for all, no rules just dirty pool, and the end result, all kinds of people getting shot and beat down for no reason, literally on accident. a code of conduct is essential, because the reality of life in gang neighborhoods is worse than being an American in Baghdad or Kabul..

No, in Kazakhstan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kdcbaiv2y4

I was about to reply to the same post but you said it even better. Pac was just more meaningful than Biggie. A true artist and poet.

But one thing that bothers me is how most people don't even know what he meant by THUG LIFE. They think it just means being a gangster and being violent. That's not even close to what it meant.

... fe real ;)