What point are you trying to make here?

Because I want to argue with you but I'm not sure what you're saying.

My main source of confusion is that you use the word hipster in conjunction with a time period that the word hipster didn't mean what it does now, which would lead me to believe that you are using the term to encompass all underground/alternative/independent music enthusiasts, or if you're using the term to characterize people who pride themselves on being ironic.

Whatever the case, there were alternative people who embraced rap far before 2001. Guy Picciotto of Fugazi used to cover White Lines by GMF when he was in Happy Go Licky in 1986. Also, the Beastie Boys started out as a punk band. And Blondie did that song Rapture.

In regards to the 2nd and 3rd opinions:

1. Not all mainstream rap is culturally destructive, just most of it.
2. Shallow does not equal unpretentious

BTW I came up with a great definition of the word hipster:

"Someone who is assimilating into the mainstream while believe they are alternative or underground"

right?

Basically, I think this summed up most of everything that needs to be said.

perfect analysis, accept that the only people who tend to "walk through a lower income neighbourhood" (sure some people drive thru but there is a world of difference)are folks who have some sort of business there, licit, illicit or otherwise ;) and block boys will most definitely check your pass, best to get it stamped in advance.

funny, I grew up in the whole "rap sucks" era, it was so ridiculous cuz as Rob already pointed out, weren't there quite a few popular, even mainstream rappers in the 80s? 90s seemed to be a segregationist era in music, people drew lines in the sand and became way to loyal to one set or another..

i also remember back in the late 90s/early 2000s when all the 'underground' (aka not rap, usually conscious, often DIY) hip hop was crackin in the computers of white kids from rural nebraska and korean kids in West LA.. the hipsters wouldn't touch that shit nor did they even know where to get it! Fuck, I remember when lame ass 50cent was some underground rapper putting DIY shit out on the internet, but look how that shit BLEW UP!

The 2000s are to generic rap music what the 90s were to 'grunge' bands and the 70s to 'punk' bands, an era where anyone who made remotely 'underground' beats and were not studio rappers would get signed and mainstream distributed regardless of talent or the lack there of..

and today, hipsters liking ridiculous radio rap, ignorant music for the sake of ignorance, sweet jesus popular culture can be confusing some times..

it all come downs to the poignant analysis of David Bowie..

"I'm affraid of Americans."

I just wish more MC's took to heart Chuck D's advice to focus on LEARNING SHIT to better their rhymes, because, it is true, one raps about what one knows.

seen.

but to get at people you have to legitimize their existence, validate their worth. If you want to collaborative to grow and develop a community, you have to understand, respect and build within the circumstances of that community. The first stage is dialogue, which was must necessarily take place in the language of the community.. as you say, one raps about what one knows. This is not a detriment, it is a foundation to build upon. This is what Tupac was doing with T.H.U.G. life, having dialogue and in the hood over very real shit like drug dealing and gun violence. You can't condescendingly reject the lives of people in real shit. Can I be a teacher at Jefferson High and tell some youth, "Hey drug dealing is bad, its a crime, you are perpetuating a cycle of poverty in your community." How can he hear that bullshit? Do my kind and sincere words pay his bills? No..

Can I tell the youth packing a strap," hey, gun violence perpetuates itself. If you have a gun you will use a gun, stop having guns for the sake of peace." meanwhile, his homie just got shot in front of his momma's house on the block he grew up on? This is not a stereotype of a rap album, this shit happens to real people. On the block I played on since I was small, we got shot at on no less than three occasions, and my homie since 4th grade had his arm broken in three places by a bullet, ironically we were most upset over losing a bad ass Ralph Lauren shirt to the blood ;) on the block where my sisters aunt used to babysit me and her when she was a baby and I was in the 2nd-3rd grade, my best friend got shot in the cross fire five years ago, still has a bullet in his hip, ironic because we always called him Slug1..

I can understand why people in these communities can't hear that intellectual shit, because it doesn't stop bullets, it doesn't pay bills. But I am fully supporting of the conscious movement in hip hop, even all the gansta rappers are about positive shit now.. The way I see it, God is moving even through the street movement.

we can only hope.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rob Instigator again.


ps. we can also stay active and proactive in the community. My only point in these lengthy responses, is that our hope can be built upon action in the community on the terms and in the circumstances of these communities. The foundation needs to be mutual respect and recognition. Stop the violence without demonizing the youth. Stop the drug dealing by providing legitimate opportunity without stigmatizing the youth.. cuz its like Peter Tosh sang my brother, "You can't blame the youth of today, and you can't fool them"

I think that the rappers on the radio and MTV have TERRIBLE FLOW. Guys can barely rhyme and are completely arrhythmic. The music is supposed to make you wanna dance.

nah, folks only dance to hip hop on the west coast.

bitchin! they are all down in my hood yknow what im saying mothafucking hoe...(shakey hands gesture, grabs crotch and pops a cap in some poor fellows arsehole!)

Oh Yeah I like me some beastie boys

sigh.

?

Meanwhile, over in Cape Town ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc3f4xU_FfQ

Fuck! That's amazing? Where did you find that?

[I'm on CD 4]

some cunt recommended it to me. probably just because of the girl.

The Dissensus massive are all over them.

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread....1-Die-Antwoord

I found a different link there to another 'something' which is bloody brilliant. i think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziz-dUe5tWA