..................the absurd 'England's hidden reverse' term...............

Laibach, anyone?[/quote]
Well well,how many people do you know who are visible in this society and are not aknowledged like they should?

Start with Martin Denny's 'Exotica' and,who knows,take it from there.

Hundreds. It's more the term itself rather than what it attempts to describe. I know there isn't one over-riding ideology which ties together the scene, which isn't particularly a scene or a genre, but there are enough commonalities for it to be a recognisable thing. 'Early-industrial' seems faintly ambiguous enough, so long as no-one from the scene is reading this (very, very unlikely I should think).

Exactly.There isn't a 'scene' as such but just common ground that happens to be shared willingly or not with other musicians(even though this isnt true in what people ACTUALLY sound like).It's just the name of a book to describe musicians that,let's face it,do not get much recognition in this country as much as they should.

Thanks for this. I'm pretty on top of the well-known names though, but if I weren't I would be very grateful for this lot. TG are kind of my archetype for how to be an experimental band without lending yourself to a load of wankishness, which is important methinks.

Fuck yeah Glice. I don't have the energy to go through bands I like. But fuck yes. Да.

throbbing gristle obviously, coil too. check out psychic tv and cabaret volitaire if you havent already.

you know boyd rice was a priest in the church of satan? pretty interesting i thought.

Yeah he was at one point,bless him.Coil are most definately not industrial music even though some elements of it certainly slipped through the net.Coil are just Coil like only Coil could be:Coil.

Godflesh for sure.

I'm trying to procure my laptopper mates Coil-alike things that I was talking about Porkie.

All good names people, but lets dig a little deeper into the pits of weird 80's things for Uncle Glice, eh?

PTV are probably the patchiest band imaginable. I have a couple of blinders of theirs, and some absolute gash. Live in Tokyo falling firmly into the latter, Mirrors/ Unclean being one of their few redemptive things.

Temporary Temple is absolutely essential PTV.

Twelve 88 Cartel. They were a Portsmouth band while I was living there (late 1980s - early 1990s), fairly mid-period Cabaret Voltaire-ish. Did a couple of Peel sessions and a small handful of albums.

godflesh?

that's like tapping the hatch open for ministry -> nine inch nails/marilyn manson a.k.a. wrongly tagged industrial music by the media.

I think industrial was always a pretty open genre, but it always had this interest in synthetic, militaristic beats. I mean, Cab Voltaire, Nitzer Ebb, Skinny Puppy, Controlled Bleeding, it's pretty easy to see how you get from that to NIN, early Manson, Rammstein... especially Rammstein, who are pretty much Laibach-lite. It's a shame that the genre has become associated with one narrow part of the early stuff, but I don't think it's necessarily a 'media contrivance' so much as it's symptomatic of the way that genres change over the years.

Give Throbbing Gristle a shot if you haven't already. I don't fancy them myself, but I respect them for the role they played in early industrial

I have a lot of TG. They're definitely in my top 5 bands list, at least for today. But yes, everyone really should listen to TG.

well, i was referring to how the media went on this "industrial" craze by the mid-90's when everyone with a digital pedal board distortion, samples from tv and movies and distorted vocals were industrial. it certainly is an open genre, but there were bands that had little or no sound related to the industrial spirit that you describe, you had stuff ranging from synth pop with distorted guitars (nine inch nalis) to skronky rock with extensive uses of samples (early manson) getting tagged as the "new wild sound sweeping the airwaves". ministry and rammstein do have more in common with classic sound industrial, and some of manson's antichrist superstar have the beat driven dark and sinister trashcan noise qualities of industrial. godflesh are like an entity of their own, in my opinion.

What about Front Line Assembly?

Aye, I'm aware of FLA. I bought a tape in Hull once.