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-   -   Swans - To Be Kind - May 13th 2014 (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=104749)

Severian 04.27.2014 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Having listened to it I'll say this-they've done it again.



For sure. I've stopped playing it completely. I was going to write a review of the album for a music blog, but I realized that doing so would require too many pre-release listens for me to still feel the rush of blood to my head when opening the vinyl copy that is being shipped to my house next month. I gave it roughly 4 start to finish listens, and pushed it out of my head as much as I possibly could.

All I can really remember now is that it didn't disappoint in the slightest, and that parts of it may actually require more attention and thought than the Seer did. And the Seer was not a "put in and rock out" album. Not for me. It was like performing a lengthy, intricate, high-stakes metaphorical surgery on my own brain.

I'm just one of those assholes who thinks, "Hey, if you're going to put THAT much time and effort into a piece of music, then there has to be something behind it; some reason for every decision . And I like to dissect that shit because I think I'm smarter than pretty much everyone, so it's like a challenge to me... The album roars, "Think you can figure me out, huh. Well, come on then!" And I put on a grim face and say, "Let's do this" while I unsheathe my Zanpakutō and charge into battle....

Wait, I'm getting Bleach confused with real life again. Sorry.

Anyway, it is true that I'm a pretty scientific thinker, and I tend to use logic and empiricism whenever possible (except when it comes to graduate student codes of conduct in cognitive neuroscience programs... Hah!) but ART mysteries me, because there are no rules, operational definitions, charts, graphs, or equations to use to better understand it. It's all about fleeting moments in time, and snap decisions made by people much more talented and imaginative than I will ever be.

This is why I love Swans. This is why I dove head first into Sonic Youth at age 15, after hearing the (then utterly) perplexing "Bull in the Heather," and not knowing how to respond. This is why I love music that provokes and takes chances and fucks with the listener... It's because it is, for me, a more meaningful experience than listening to music that presses all the right buttons and is manufactured to activate pleasure centers in the brain. That shit's easy.

But standing at a Swans show, being bludgeoned to death by guitars that feel like axes in your ear drums, surrounded by maniacs, drenched in someone else's sweat, feeling my body age and weaken more rapidly due to the sheer intensity of the sensory onslaught in front of me and loving every minute of it? That makes no goddamn sense. I hate having to share neighborhoods with other people! I'm claustrophobic and I'm a clean freak and loud noises make me nervous. So why does erratic, droning, noisy music make me feel like a fucking god? And why does this music even exist? Obviously there is a like minded soul behind it, and that is probably the true appeal.

Anyway, I think about music and other things too much. It's starting to become a serious problem, and I'm beginning to worry that it may be a textbook cognitive malfunction. But fuck it, NEW SWANS!! WOOO!!!

Skuj 04.27.2014 11:35 PM

Fuck I love you, Severian.

Severian 04.28.2014 08:01 AM

I'm putting together a quick "Best Albums of 2914 (1st Quarter)" list for aforementioned blog. Naturally, TBK doesn't meet the deadline, but I've gotta tell ya-- while there have been some STRONG releases this year, particularly by artists previously unbeknownst to me, there is nothing in any genre that can compete with this record.

This leads me to believe that unless Yeezy's release is as timely and spectacular as sources would indicate (unlikely, considering the lack of solid leads on the album, but ya never know) or Wu-Tang and Raekwon reconcile and bust a nut all over the place, this is going to be the second year out if three in which Swans walk away on top of the mountain.

Severian 04.28.2014 08:03 AM

Actually, Thee Oh Sees album has serious growth potential, but I doubt it can grow into a Swans competitor. It would need about another hour of music, and the blessing of some malevolent desert God to reach that level.

Severian 05.02.2014 09:06 PM

Ok, the new Fennesz album may be a competitor too. It's insanely, unbelievably great.

I don't think Swans are probably going to have as easy a time crushing the competition as the did in '12, but they're still going to obliterate nearly every other release that sees the light of day this year.

Skuj 05.04.2014 01:17 AM

***looks up Fennesz (wtf?)***

Skuj 05.04.2014 03:47 PM

Off topic slightly, but I've been playing My Father Will Guide.....and that "companion" cd Look At Me Go is the best thing about it imho. I cannot imagine just the single disc edition. Look At Me Go samples the album proper, expands and deconstructs it. It's essential.

The only Swans I know is this My Father... and Seer. TBK for the hatrick.

Skuj 05.04.2014 03:55 PM

(And I explored Fennesz.)

Skuj 05.08.2014 01:54 AM

Fuck, SY, Swans have a new album streaming.

I'm living with this muthafucker now. Wow....as much as I adore Seer, I never thought I would say this: GIRA IS A GREAT SINGER.

TBK is not only more vocal oriented, but much more "song" oriented. But if advanced reviews had all pointed to "songs" and how organic it is, or even....gasp....The Doors......I would have been completely bummed. But I get that now, and it's all very very good. Fuck me.....no other band in history has done this. Wouldn't it be great if REM or even the fucking Stones followed Gira's example? ie Stretch out, be unafraid, keep growing....

It will take me a long time to come to terms with this beast, but fuck, they have done it again.

h8kurdt 05.08.2014 02:08 PM

haha told you so.

Skuj 05.09.2014 06:06 PM

I do this kind of thing with every album but.....

If you start with CD2 then end with CD1.....isn't it better that way?

Genteel Death 05.09.2014 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuj
Fuck, SY, Swans have a new album streaming.


God knows why. I've tried to neg-rep you and your friends several times on this thread but I can't.

chocolate_ladyland 05.09.2014 09:42 PM

Wow this might actually be better than The Seer

Skuj 05.09.2014 10:14 PM

I can't believe I'm saying it, but yes, I agree it is better than Seer.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.09.2014 10:18 PM

Sharing is caring assholes ;)

http://www.npr.org/2014/05/04/308392...ans-to-be-kind

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.09.2014 10:22 PM

First listen, this sounds more like tool than those tool sounding moments on the seer. I know I will get shitted on for saying that, but I don't care, I like tool, and what I hear in The Seer and To Be Kind that sounds like what I hear in tool I mutually like in both. Its the sound that attracts me to it. I much prefer this Swans revival/revision to the earlier more chaotic shit, I'd compare this more recent Swans era with that ATL/NYCGF/Murray St/Sonic Nurse era of Sonic Youth which I found to be the most mature, constructed, instrumentally innovative period for Sonic Youth. The Seer and To Be Kind sound more like Swans meets more a more conventional approach to music, and those John Weiss mother fuckers who liked the chaos theory noise makes music approach to early Swans might not dig it. I think its a very maturing progression, to take the same kind of emphasis on minimalism, repetition, ambient noise/feedback, droning effects, dynamic contrasts, its early Swans but much more musical. Shit, the second disc from The Seer had something closely resembling a radio single! The Seer is one of my all time favorite records, and I agree with others, To Be Kind at my first listen sounds better.. I'm ordering it now, not tomorrow.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.09.2014 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severian
And the Seer was not a "put in and rock out" album. Not for me. It was like performing a lengthy, intricate, high-stakes metaphorical surgery on my own brain.


Fucking totally agree. I can only listen to The Seer when I am on my metro commute or reading a novel for extended periods of time, I need to open space for my brain to explore the sounds without being to preoccupied with other aspects of life or even the music.


Quote:

I'm just one of those assholes who thinks, "Hey, if you're going to put THAT much time and effort into a piece of music, then there has to be something behind it; some reason for every decision .

This is why I never understood people's beef with radiohead, even if they didn't like it, they must admit the technical mechanics and process that goes into it. Swans even more so, ironic how "minimalist" music is often the most complex and constructed.

Quote:

"Think you can figure me out, huh. Well, come on then!"

Agreed, The Seer is not like some friendly DMT kind of sagacity, no, its fucking some reality shattering Datura shit. It looks like some pleasant flowers, but its in actuality a force of the supernatural.


Quote:

Wait, I'm getting Bleach confused with real life again. Sorry.

Hold on, while lyrically Bleach is definitely immature and less-than-well-formed, sonically that record is as much a brunt force of minimalism as Swans, just in a microcosmic approach. Where Swans draws out the effect of contrast and dynamics, Nirvana condenses it into bursts of conventional rock music, yet, its the same kind of simplistic, almost minimalist approach seasoned with the energy of brunt force.

Quote:


Anyway, it is true that I'm a pretty scientific thinker, and I tend to use logic and empiricism whenever possible (except when it comes to graduate student codes of conduct in cognitive neuroscience programs... Hah!) but ART mysteries me, because there are no rules, operational definitions, charts, graphs, or equations to use to better understand it. It's all about fleeting moments in time, and snap decisions made by people much more talented and imaginative than I will ever be.

There are charts, graphs, rules, operational definitions, and theory underlying music, but the beauty of it unlike math and engineering, music creates the effect of feeling, which is altogether transcendental in ways that math simply can't even attempt at. Logic is about reasoning, music is about shattering that using the underlying math of the craft of playing an instrument. As a player myself, nothing is more esoteric and magical than the effect playing an instrument has over people around you, it is surreal and when you master it the art becomes less and less a matter of conscious effort or expression and becomes something more, a kind of harmonic Communion. Its why in the Old Church, the Mass is always sung, the Fathers always said, "When you sing a prayer, you pray twice."


Quote:


But standing at a Swans show, being bludgeoned to death by guitars that feel like axes in your ear drums, surrounded by maniacs, drenched in someone else's sweat, feeling my body age and weaken more rapidly due to the sheer intensity of the sensory onslaught in front of me and loving every minute of it?


This is how I felt about the Sonic Nurse tour. Bludgeoned to death by guitars.. Nothing like it. I would LOVE to see Swans tour The Seer or this new record, it would be like taking mushrooms, too many in fact.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.09.2014 11:33 PM

Ok.. so this record is so fucking good that I wish it was broken up into smaller, more manageable portions so I can repeat and relive certain moments easier. I guess that is sort of the point of minimalism and repetition isn't it, the sound you like is part of a dynamic, and that effect is more so why you like it, as a part of the process and build up than just the sound itself..

This record is good. I'm glad I didn't sleep on it.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.10.2014 12:18 AM

They're playing in LA, at the fucking ROXY of all places, it can't fit more than 200 people and the floor isn't much larger than the living room in my house BUT I don't even know if I can handle that.. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm on the fence about buying the tickets..

Derek 05.10.2014 11:55 AM

Go. One of the best live acts around right now. Bring earplugs though.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.10.2014 12:14 PM

This record very much reminds me of the progression that tool made from Lateralus to 10,000 Days.. Not necessarily in the way it sounds so much as the way that it builds on a sound that was discovered on the first record.

With Lateralus Tool discovered a new aspect of their sound and approach. With 10,000 Days they build on this discovery, mastered, embellished, exaggerated it. I like 10,000 Days better..

With The Seer Swans clearly discovered a new, more musical approach to their droning feedback and minimalist repetition. With To Be Kind, it feels like they took the best parts and pieces of The Seer, and built on them. This is then a progression, an evolution. I like it. I like when bands do this. So often bands make these really great records, but then move on to a different sound on the next record. Swans found something better here

h8kurdt 05.10.2014 04:33 PM

I'ma gonna stop you thre. Lateralus is a perfect, 10,000 days is just alright. and as much as I love the album, Bring the Sun is just as ok. HOWEVER, 'Just a little boy' has one of the best riffs EVER. I came.

louder 05.10.2014 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
HOWEVER, 'Just a little boy' has one of the best riffs EVER. I came.

YES.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.10.2014 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
I'ma gonna stop you thre. Lateralus is a perfect, 10,000 days is just alright. and as much as I love the album, Bring the Sun is just as ok. HOWEVER, 'Just a little boy' has one of the best riffs EVER. I came.


I already anticipated this, most tool fans didn't receive 10,000 Days as well as they did Lateralus and true lyrically there is nothing compared to Lateralus BUT instrumentation and music wise, I think that 10,000 Days is a better record, it is an evolution, progression, and expansion on some of the best sonic moments from Lateralus, like they tapped into it. I feel this same way about To Be Kind, it sounds like best moments on The Seer but dwells on them, expanded them, kind of like zooming in on fractals. The deeper you examine, the more complex and intricate the pattern becomes, but its the same pattern. To Be Kind is like a fractal of The Seer in this regard..

 

Savage Clone 05.10.2014 05:56 PM

Oh man please take your Tool talk out of the Swans thread. brb barfing

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.10.2014 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage Clone
Oh man please take your Tool talk out of the Swans thread. brb barfing


I anticipated this too, sorry, I'm not talking about tool to talk about tool, but to compare records that followed a similar kind of progression. Did you notice I spent most of this thread, in fact, probably 98% talking about Swans right?? In fact, I've talked about To Be Kind more than you have chosen to on this thread, and by volume and ratio, you've technically devoted more of your brief post to tool than I did ;)

Savage Clone 05.10.2014 06:03 PM

At least I didn't gloss over their acousticky/goth years...

But OK you win, Tool apologist.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.10.2014 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage Clone
At least I didn't gloss over their acousticky/goth years...

But OK you win, Tool apologist.




Hahahaha.... that's why I love you Savage Clone!

 

Yeah, I did sort of gloss over those years, and yeah, I am the resident SYG Tool/radiohead apologist, but why get into polemics here? This is a kick ass Swans thread, about what seems like possibly the best Swans records as a composition.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.11.2014 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h8kurdt
HOWEVER, 'Just a little boy' has one of the best riffs EVER. I came.


Did you make it to the riff on "Kirsten Supine?" I'm honestly not sure a song has so perfectly captured the sounds I hear in my head its almost kind of scary because even my own music that I create always has this certain ambient element missing that gets lost in translation from my brain to my guitar meanwhile Swans seems to have crawled into my brain and found a way..

Genteel Death 05.11.2014 05:15 AM

 

guest 05.13.2014 03:06 AM

I hate saying this but I'm really deterred by all the hyperbolic bullshit surrounding this record that even gira himself seems to be playing into. never wanted to be one of these people but the bandwagon-jumpers who hopped on at the seer are really infuriating me with their 'my they're oh so scary' comments and adjectives ripped directly from pitchfork reviews. really I just don't get how these people listen to sky fucking ferreira and swans. is there not a really distinct disparity between the two? I'm all for diversity and shit or whatever but, to be frank, I'm insulted by shared tastes with these fuckwits.

guest 05.13.2014 03:07 AM

all that said I'm sure the record is LOVELY

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.13.2014 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest
all that said I'm sure the record is LOVELY


All that bitching and you haven't even listened to record before you condemn folks as being cliched, fake, or relying on hyperbole?? LISTEN TO THE ACTUAL RECORD FIRST BEFORE YOU SHIT TALK, perhaps you'll discover that the comments are justified :cool:

Genteel Death 05.13.2014 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest
I hate saying this but I'm really deterred by all the hyperbolic bullshit surrounding this record that even gira himself seems to be playing into. never wanted to be one of these people but the bandwagon-jumpers who hopped on at the seer are really infuriating me with their 'my they're oh so scary' comments and adjectives ripped directly from pitchfork reviews. really I just don't get how these people listen to sky fucking ferreira and swans. is there not a really distinct disparity between the two? I'm all for diversity and shit or whatever but, to be frank, I'm insulted by shared tastes with these fuckwits.

I love Swans and I'm really looking forward to seeing them live but I have a problem with some of the ''oh so frightening'' doomy aesthetics which seem to surround their music and charisma. I used to think, stupidly, that this may be because, no matter what, I feel detached and faggy when it comes to addressing some of the issues they do in their songs, but I came to the conclusion it's probably just a way of thinking about them in a different way and being super guarded when it comes to pomposity in rock music. There is definitely a certain element of pomposity in Michael Gira, but then again he seems like a pretty lucid, engaging artist in the way he makes music and talks about it. He could easily end up being a Bob Dylan type of pompous character, but he seems to get it just about right in the new Swans incarnation. One of the things that often grates on this new record is his voice. wtf is that bluesy treatment it seems to get on some songs? White people sound terrible and dishonest when they sing in a bluesy voice.

louder 05.13.2014 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genteel Death
White people sound terrible and dishonest when they sing in a bluesy voice.

not always

Bytor Peltor 05.13.2014 03:34 PM

You Know Nothing - A Conversation With Michael Gira

Genteel Death 05.13.2014 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louder
not always

Sure. On the song ''She Loves Us'' (surely it's more of a ''track'' that one), they even add some cod-world music vocals for effect. I love it when it turns into notorious Tory Gary Numan, like it's been mentioned on a previous post. It's when I suddenly feel like I can't talk anymore and the Swans experience is complete for me. I am complete. I used to feel but I don't have to anymore. The symbolism is so overwhelming my legs are the arms of Jesus.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.13.2014 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genteel Death
I love Swans and I'm really looking forward to seeing them live but I have a problem with some of the ''oh so frightening'' doomy aesthetics which seem to surround their music and charisma.


I agree, honestly, the imagery and themes of their music seemed to be more positive than dark? They are deeply introspective, but I don't think they are inherently negative or frightening, if anything quite the opposite, it provides a vehicle through the power of sound and poetry to chase away negativity in a kind of cathartic bliss??

dead_battery 05.13.2014 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest
I hate saying this but I'm really deterred by all the hyperbolic bullshit surrounding this record that even gira himself seems to be playing into. never wanted to be one of these people but the bandwagon-jumpers who hopped on at the seer are really infuriating me with their 'my they're oh so scary' comments and adjectives ripped directly from pitchfork reviews. really I just don't get how these people listen to sky fucking ferreira and swans. is there not a really distinct disparity between the two? I'm all for diversity and shit or whatever but, to be frank, I'm insulted by shared tastes with these fuckwits.


they care about music insofar as it makes them money. if you want to a good review, you pay them. the rest of the time they will either trash or hype releases for the sense of credibility it might give them, but fundamentally they don't give a shit.

for pitchfork, its just as important to deliberately shit on artists that (can't afford) to pay them. they like to give mediocre reviews to ACTUALLY good indie/experimental music because giving something a 6 or a 7 is deadly, give it a 0 and people will pay attention, but 6 or 7 just makes people pass it over as bland without even hearing it. all pitchfork really cares about is mainstream american pop music and that side of indie that intermixes with it. they deliberately shit on stuff because its the only way they can make themselves look credible. from their very beginning, their singular goal was to erase any differences between actually alternative and anti commercial stuff and create a seamless harmony between 80's 90's pop and stuff like radiohead and the most bland college rock indie. they are a business and they have been mostly a scourge to actual underground music for a long time now.

i dont give the first fuck about the actual musical merits of mainstream pop music, it might even have a certain quality to it, but i still fucking hate it on a matter of principle and want a space where it can be ignored or destroyed as the mass appeal trash that it is. pitchfork was all about capitalizing on indie and trying to remove any boundaries between underground culture and mainstream culture. a vast amount of the shit it has actually promoted in its best of lists is pure fucking garbage. its a pop magazine for people who are a bit too cool for school. thats it.

i respect what swans is doing now, i dont think its as great as anyone else says it is but it its still good.

swans might have peaked with this

that song is one of the greatest of all time. swans have done some of the best music of the past few decades. they are coming out with great stuff still. they deserve the respect, good for them for getting the hype and hopefully some cash. to be fair to swans, they didn't just go into a decline, they knock out amazing songs or pieces all the time. they're a great band.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 05.13.2014 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead_battery
they care about music insofar as it makes them money. if you want to a good review, you pay them. the rest of the time they will either trash or hype releases for the sense of credibility it might give them, but fundamentally they don't give a shit.

for pitchfork, its just as important to deliberately shit on artists that (can't afford) to pay them. they like to give mediocre reviews to ACTUALLY good indie/experimental music because giving something a 6 or a 7 is deadly, give it a 0 and people will pay attention, but 6 or 7 just makes people pass it over as bland without even hearing it. all pitchfork really cares about is mainstream american pop music and that side of indie that intermixes with it. they deliberately shit on stuff because its the only way they can make themselves look credible. from their very beginning, their singular goal was to erase any differences between actually alternative and anti commercial stuff and create a seamless harmony between 80's 90's pop and stuff like radiohead and the most bland college rock indie. they are a business and they have been mostly a scourge to actual underground music for a long time now.

i dont give the first fuck about the actual musical merits of mainstream pop music, it might even have a certain quality to it, but i still fucking hate it on a matter of principle and want a space where it can be ignored or destroyed as the mass appeal trash that it is. pitchfork was all about capitalizing on indie and trying to remove any boundaries between underground culture and mainstream culture. a vast amount of the shit it has actually promoted in its best of lists is pure fucking garbage. its a pop magazine for people who are a bit too cool for school. thats it.

i respect what swans is doing now, i dont think its as great as anyone else says it is but it its still good.

swans might have peaked with this

that song is one of the greatest of all time. swans have done some of the best music of the past few decades. they are coming out with great stuff still. they deserve the respect, good for them for getting the hype and hopefully some cash. to be fair to swans, they didn't just go into a decline, they knock out amazing songs or pieces all the time. they're a great band.


Write stuff like this, you're so much better when not just trolling (and let me clarify, when you're not making purposefully and calculatedly incendiary remarks ;) )

Though you are trolling us with that Swans link, at least, I fucking hope you are!


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