Music is as much of a product as a toothbrush, like it or not.The very moment you make a money transaction in order to get it, you are doing exactly what everyone else is doing apart from thieves , and this regardless of the way it is packaged,played,the feelings behind it etc.Also, the package of a product doesn't ultimately give or take the inherent quality of something, didn't your parents tell you?

is this just desperate cry for sympathy now that he's getting called on his comments ?

mang, that you had a rough childhood does not give you a license to dish out the shit to others in turn

in fact you are at risk of becoming exactly like that abusive dad you so hate.

you know this, right?

thanks but no thanks, maybe you should check out one of the many Nirvana forums????

"it was better than what i expected"
see?
same here.
that was what the whole thing was all about.
it didn't bore me at all. and i wasn't paying much attention at what the lyrics said or anything like that. i thought i was going to change the channel during the second or third song but it actually worked out for me and kept on listening.
i am not really fond of watching tv or dvd's

you seem like quite an angry little hothead, ready to get verbally violent at the slightest provocation.

perhaps you don't know this, but abusive behavior is learned. i am sure your dad could tell you quite a sob story about his own childhood. yet that does not constitute an excuse.

you've never hit anyone... YET.

Music is a form of art, and that's why I don't consider Justin Timberlake music. I can hear the intentions behind music, so when I buy a sonic youth record it is because they put all of their creative effort into it to make something they were proud of. And I can hear that. It inspires me. I buy that, yes, so yeah that is a product I buy. And that's an entirely different product than a Justin Timberlake cd.

Justin Timberlake is a different product. Justin Timberlake is like a good feeling program that you run on your CD player if you "like to dance" or hear a cute boy sing or something. It's shallow, and it's pop. There is nowhere to go from the surface. I know some people like that, but that's not a product I like to buy. And yeah, I resent it because I think that it's overshadowed music.

1) you could hurt someone who is 5' and weighs 100lbs. or someone who is 4 years old.

2) you don't need to actually lay a finger on someone to destroy a person. emotional and verbal abuse suffice for that.

3) you need to read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Angry-All-Time.../dp/1879237970

and you're welcome

well, see. that's the sentimentalism i was talking about. you relate to kurt's lyrics and that is something great, but why do you feel you have the need to start insulting just because someone thinks that something another band did sounds better or was more unexpected than something coming from kurt's band?
nirvana is not my favourite band and i don't believe they are the best thing i've ever heard. some people might say that it is, but that's their opinion and i am ok with them. i've heard people saying bands such as placebo and green day are the best bands in the world. so i am ready for every kind of thing like that.
outside the fucking unplugged event it's obvious i like nirvana better. i am not saying nirvana sucks, i just tried to say their unplugged was completely normal, special guests, whatever.

fucking rude asshole.
grow up.
get a job and stop blahbing around a fucking message board for a while.

good. :)

look, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. your anger clearly owns your ass. i also added some things to my original post. and knowing that you are a hotheaded little shit is not enough, you're still on a kamikaze road to self destruction. now, i don't give a shit one way or another, but you have problems, and "knowing" is not enough, you have to man up and do something about it.

The "Unplugged" idea can be great when done well. I've seen the Korn Unplugged and while they certainly made a valient effort and did a decent job with thier own songs, I thought thier "Creep" cover was weak. It was in no way better then Nirvana's Unplugged, and I'm not just saying that because Kurt is dead. Korn are an alright band, but the only album that I'm familar with is "Follow the Leader" by far probobly thier best album. None of their other albums have lived up to that one.

i am just bitter that they ruined Creep

whatever-- i figured i'd rather point out the obvious rather than perpetuate your habitual routine of hatred and self-hatred, and the drama that ensues as people retaliate your unfocused aggressions.

whenever you get a chance to cool down and think like a person again go check out that book, im sure you'll be able to benefit from it.

Wayne Coyne is pretty good friends with Timberlake and I never understood it. I would never buy one of his cd's because it just doesn't "do it" for me, but four words made me realize his potential genius.

Dick in a Box

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA



I only saw some of the Korn show and it really was better than I was expecting. however, my main thought was how old Jonathan Davis was starting to look. at least he didn't go all jesus freak!!

They have great word-of-mouth and at one time, got megadistribution.
Your basic old-school redneck, of course, affirmed Lynyrd Skynyrd as the end-all, be-all of groups. Thing is, Lynyrd Skynyrd are actually great musicians and write some good songs every now and then.

Your modern redneck, however, listens to all the modern garbage like nu-metal mtv/radio songs, the majority of new hip-hop, and so forth, but the band they seem to universally absolutely adore (& that can do no wrong) is Korn.

One thing we can learn from this thread is that South America also has rednecks.

To consider Justin Timberlake's music not to be an art form just because you don't like it is just a bit dumb, to say the least.So, you're basically saying that if someone doesn't appreciate what you appreciate, they don't have an idea of what art is or might be?I don't understand the point that you're making.

obvious, yes, but there's that trite expression of not seeing the forest for the trees that i think applies here. while everyone was entangled in an insultfest, i figured i'd add a little perspective to the discussion.

Yeah, he was quite good on the Barry Gibb talk show too.

fucking racist hahahahahaha
you just won't fucking understand that korn is NOT in between the bands i listen to everyfucking day.
i think i haven't heard anything by korn since 1998.
but I listened to nevermind yesterday, and incesticide a few days ago.
my daily bands are juana molina, sonic youth, elastica, psapp, EVEN NIRVANA.
not korn.

hjasdhsaj ok
i am on your side this time.

i agree.
i think everything has to be an art form.
you can take several elements from songs by several diferent artists.
that depending on what's inside your head.
i can listen to an ABBA song and say i find it brilliant while people like swa(y) will say it's fucking gay to find something like that brilliant.

in principle, i would have no problem with a "live and let die" philosophy, except that it's true that misery loves company-- so miserable people do create problems for the rest...

having said that, i wonder: is your rejection of happiness a form of sour grapes? you should try it some time before you try to pass judgement on it.

Opinions are like arseholes, you have one too.

oh sour means green i mean not ripe hm let's see...

The Fox and the Grapes

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The Fox and the Grapes, illustrated by Milo Winter in a 1919 Aesop anthology


The Fox and the Grapes

is a fable attributed to Aesop. The protagonist, a fox, upon failing to find a way to reach grapes hanging high up on a vine, retreated and said: "The grapes are sour anyway!". The moral is stated at the end of the fable as:

It is easy to despise what you cannot get.

The English idiom "sour grapes" - derived from this fable - refers to the denial of one's desire for something that one fails to acquire or to the person who holds such denial. Similar expressions exist in other languages. In psychology, this behavior is known as rationalization. It may also be called reduction of cognitive dissonance.

In colloquial speech the idiom is often applied to someone who loses and fails to do so gracefully. Strictly speaking, it should be applied to someone who, after losing, denies the intention to win altogether. The phrase is misused in all sorts of ways by people who do not know the original story and imagine it means something more general like "bitterness" or "resentment".

Frank Tashlin adapted the tale into a 1941 Color Rhapsodies short for Screen Gems/Columbia Pictures. The Fox and the Grapes marked the first appearance of Screen Gems' most popular characters, The Fox and the Crow.

Similar Persian (Iranian) idiom: "The cat who cannot reach the meat says it smells bad!" Or a Bengali phrase: "One who doesn't know how to dance says the floor is uneven!"

[edit] Unripe versus sour

The moral of the fable centers on the qualification by the fox, when he finds his desire unattainable. The word "sour" was probably chosen by the translators in Western Europe, writing during the Victorian era. Study of older versions of the fable suggest that "unripe" might be a more literal translation, the idea being that the fox would come back later to try in earnest. The word "unripe" may have been replaced with "sour" by the fable's Victorian translators since the word "unripe", in Victorian society, might have been interpreted as an innuendo suggesting an as-yet unripe woman.

Another view is that "sour grapes" is brief and concrete, as compared with "unripe grapes".

dont get all confusing now, we were talking about happiness not "things"

are you seriously a psychologist?

no! i just have a lot of experience with crazies :D

(myself included)

No, I don't expect everyone else to appreciate what I appreciate. Hell, there's stuff I appreciate that I don't expect anyone else to appreciate.

Justin Timberlake is designed to sell hits. Are you going to tell me otherwise? He exists to appeal to the broadest spectrum of people who don't really give a shit about music or art. They just want to dance. They just want something catchy.

that's great.
i'd love to study psychology but not in the whole professional way.
just to be able to understand attitudes and stuff.

Hear the lonesome whiperwill
He sounds too blue to fly
The midnight train is whining low
Im so lonesome I could cry

Ive never seen a night so long
When time goes crawling by
The moon just went behind a cloud
To hide its face and cry

Did you ever see a robin weep
When leaves begin to die
That means hes lost the will to live
Im so lonesome I could cry

The silence of a falling star
Lights up a purple sky
And as I wonder where you are
Im so lonesome I could cry

oh! psychology books usually start with freud and behaviorism and all that stuff, but i never found it too helpful to understand people.

this book however blew my mind:

http://www.amazon.com/Bradshaw-Famil.../dp/1558744274

its genius but a bit poorly written-- not really a contradiction, it's a matter of substance over style. amazing though.

but even people who really give shit about music or art can find something "good" in what he does.
i've talked about it with one important music producer here.
i cannot find anything good in a Creed song but I certainly believe there's something good in what Justin Timberlake does.
I wouldn't buy him an album, I wouldn't go to one of his shows, I wouldn't even care to watch an special tv show about him.
but when you are in a 15 year old birthday party all you get is miranda! (a pop band from argentina), justin timberlake, black eyed peas. Boredom and the fact that I don't like dancing made me realise over the years that all those kind of teenie boppie bands have at least ONE good thing per song. ONE and only ONE good effect or good arrangement.

yes! i wanted to get some freud stuff about the interpretation of dreams. i am wanting to know about that.

well freud is a giant but really quite outdated now, there are a lot of books about him and i'm sure in argentina especially,

in english there's the "general introduction to psychoanalysis" book that has many editions. en castellano no se.

but also if you read freud in translation (especially in english) and not in german, bruno bettleheim's "freud and man's soul" is a must, because he points out some very serious problems of the translations of freud into english, and how those have spawned all sorts of misinterpretations. http://www.amazon.com/Freud-Mans-Sou...3467326&sr=1-1

have fun-- i really need to get off the board & back to work but if you need more books pm me.

sí, sonic youth would be great to listen to in an unplugged, but i don't think that one's happening anytime soon. next one will probably be my chemical romance or some shit like that.

almost 90% of everything Freud psotulated has been discredited, and discredited badly.
most of his theories of women and most of his theories on child development stemmed from very few clinical observations. his ideas fucked everyone up for 50 years before psychologists and psychiatirsts decided to ignore them.
fuck freud.

to read about dreams read Carl Jung.

I'll see what I can find at the book fair (sp?) at the park.

He appeals to me in a different way than, say, Ravi Shankar or whoeever you want to insert there who has anymore of a different approach to making music-making than Timberlake might have.Careful when you say that he appeals only to people who like to dance, because you are making a statement without having anything realistic to back it up with. Brian McMahan (of Slint and Forcarnation fame) has always wanted to make an r n b album and Steve Stapleton of Nurse With Wound has made a Hip Hop album.Both genres are carefully packaged to be sold, and both of them are what you would easily call people who give quite the shit about art.