the unicorn has a pre-cum puddle below him,. from watching too much Keeping Up With Kardashians.

the parable of the garden of eden contains MANY references.
the creation of eve was intended to keep man from "loving" the animals. read bout it.
The eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is about maturation as a species, as humans instead of animals. Humans know right from wrong, and choose to do either. animals just do what feels good at the moment, whether that is eat, fuck, run, or kill.
The story of Cain and Abel is an allegory describing how humans should value each other's lives, as if we are all related. the original CRIME, killing another human.

remember that the bible was written by and for scholars, intelligent, literate people in a world of ill-informed, chaotic, illiterate people.
the parables in the bible are not meant for easy consumption by the stupid.
that is what scientology and Republican conservatism is for.
ha!
They are meant for reflection, and insight.
no one wrote down anything jesus said. his teachings ahd to be transcribed as allegory and story to get his points accross. the earliest of the gopspels was written over 100 years after Christ's death.

It was not really a fall if you look at it the right way. It was a chance at an after life versus death. With sin we were also given the power to choose. Animals do not choose they act only on survival instict. So we rise up and choose our own fate.

He compared the kingdom of God to things they could touch and see and relate to which would make it easier for someone to grasp then talking about something they have no knowledge of. Most of the people that listened to Jesus could not read and had not read the old testiment. They were also kept on the outskirts of the temple.

I don't know why you'd have to be a literary critic to understand a parable. They make a lot more sense to me then the old testament. It's not a poem.

Rep ya if i could:)

remember, Jesus got killed by the people in power (rich established Jews and the Roman conquerors) for espousing a complete destruction of not just the civil but the spiritual status quo. motherfucker tried to stir shit up and they chopped him down, as anyone who tries to upset the status quo seems to be, unless they are very lucky.

those in power will do anything within their power to see that the circumstances by which they became rich an powerful do not change.

hence our country being ripped apart (usa) by assholes who benefit from the immense shitloads of money being fed into insurance copmpanies and the current healthcare system.

Why do people always say 'Jesus was punk' rather than 'Punks are Christians'? It's odd that the inference always comes down on one side rather than another, isn't it?

But if was a good thing why does God tell Adam and Eve NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge?


If the meaning of the parables was just told to them in simple commands then surely that would be easier to understand than the parables? And if the these simple commands were things they "had no knowledge" of then why would the parables be relevant either as they are giving these commands/advice but in a different for.




That was analogy as a parable is open to interpretation and is going to be harder to understand than simply being told "do this, do that". A parable requires a higher level of intellectual sophistication rather than a lower level.

But he's kind of agreeing with me in that he says the Bible wasn't for the stupid masses and was too difficult for them to understand which is the complete opposite of what you saying, which was that it was written in way so the stupid people would understand.

Yeah "the meek shall inherit the earth" and "turn the other cheek" very much reflects the punk ethic.

the knowledge of good and evil is not inherently good nor is it inhrentl;y bad and that is part of the wisdom, that with mature humanity, nothing is all good, or all bad, and the knowledge of good and evil must be used when making every decision.

parables are giving wisdom, not instructions. commands give instructions.

the ten commandments for example, were intended solely as instructions by which a very large (several thousand) group of drifter nomad people with different backgrounds (though all hebrews) could survive and not kill each other as they mad their way through adesert for 40 years.
the 10 commandments were never intended to be a guide fo all people in all places to live by.

in the allegory of the bible, the new testament superceds the old ten commandments with just one sentence. The goldn rule

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

This isn't relevant. Don't change the subject. We're not talking about what is being said (well, earlier I was) but how it was said.

what's a lurker care bout what's relevant?

I was refering to the first part of the response if you wish to know why. And I rep alot of people who disagree with me...cause i must have made them think if they took the time to respond.

I did not use the term STUPID PEOPLE I used dumb (meaning those that were held back from the knowledge of the temple and there traditions because of thier situation). I was refering to the excluded parts of the society whom had been held back unjustly from enlightenment.

The bible is one of the best pieces of literature in the history of Humanity. I am not denying the fact that it is a book that cannot be simplified. I was only refering to a question from the bible.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


That is what I meant but I am not as scholarly as Matthew was when he recorded it so i guess my point did not come across right.

It is not about being told what to do. It is understanding what is right and choosing to do it.


The smart ones have more trouble believing than the dumb ones. They depend on their own superiority rather than looking outside of themselves.

I know you didn't, I said that Rob said that and therefore was disagreeing with you.

So you're telling me God tells me people not to do things only so they will do those things and then have to suffer from the pain of regret...yes...that makes sense.

You'd rather get fucked than have eternal redemption? What a cunt!

I believe in a god that rewards atheists and punishes religious people.

I have the problem that, while religious sorts often don't help themselves, atheists often have the most weary, half-baked notions of what it is they're opposing. It's not that the content of atheists' arguments are wrong, they just tend to miss the point of what religion and spirituality is and does. What really pisses me off is that the image of poisonous, vile, literalist Americans like the Westboro Baptists entirely distorts the popular image of the complete remainder of religion, or at least Christianity.

I was not trying to stir up some definition of punk debate. I said he was punk because he caused an uproar and opposed the popular views of his time.

I think that any one trying to sell any sort of music in the name of god is just trying to make automatic profit. Pumping out shit so people will buy it cause it talks about god. BULLSHIT.THey are also selling the wrong messages. They don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Every band that I tend to like has brought me in with subtle refrences of god in thier lyrics. One of them being Sonic Youth.

1. Do you think in black and white terms, re: logic, where either it is or it isn't...?
Neither, it's stupid

2. Do you dream in black and white or color?
colour

3. Photography: do you work in, or prefer black and white photography over color?
colour, black and white is mostly corny in this day and age

4. TV or movies: Would you rather watch it in black and white or color?
don't care, but if it's new and in black and white there better be a damn good reason for being so

5. Visual art: do you like to work in, or prefer viewing black and white art over color?
no

6. Clothing: Do you lean toward basic black and white or are you a splashy color dresser?
just whatever, but living in the uk most clothes in general tend to be black or grey

7. Do you believe that black is assoctiated with evil and white signifies all things good and pure?
well, it's not a question of belief, black and white are associated with those things and are used to signify them all the time.

8. And finally, is Jesus black or white...???
i would say he was most likely beige

i think this kind of thinking prevents grown up discussion, plus you might say that about your upbringing but there's scant evidence

A fair point, except I was taking the piss.

yeah i know, but the first point i made was about stuff that gets on my tits in real life (about myself as much as anyone). and the second point i think is valid whether you're taking the piss or not.

That was a joke by the way. Believing in a god that punishes people who believe in a god is...self defeating.

What I don't like in many atheists is that they don't just lack belief in any god/religion but that they define themselves by this opposition to religion. But in what your saying I suppose that's why someone like Nietzsche is so important because he actually addresses the problems in the loss of religion, such as the loss of meaning in life that this entails.

meaning is human-placed. religion does not have a monolpoly on meaning. They just want you to think they do.
atheism is not about lacking belief. it is about actively and personally accepting the non-existence of supernatural beings that create/shape/and demand praise and worship.

I think I might give up on speech. Whenever I say anything people nearly always seem to misunderstand.

.....

So you're saying everyone's too stupid to understand your oh-so-important speech, right? You make me sick to the core.

Yes. You understood that so you're above the others.

Alternatively it could just be that I don't express myself clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker
That was a joke by the way. Believing in a god that punishes people who believe in a god is...self defeating.

What I don't like in many atheists is that they don't just lack belief in any god/religion but that they define themselves by this opposition to religion.


That's the very point of being an atheist, it shouldn't surprise you so much.


I mean things like for example these people: "''atheists'' who can't wait to remind everyone how much they hate God, the church etc."







But in what your saying I suppose that's why someone like Nietzsche is so important because he actually addresses the problems in the loss of religion, such as the loss of meaning in life that this entails.

Nietzsche can well and truly fuck off, since an atheist worth their salt will understand what life is about as much as someone whose faith is strong, including the importance that religion has in its midst for a lot of people. Seriosuly, that is the sort of bad generalisation about atheists which is no better than ''atheists'' who can't wait to remind everyone how much they hate God, the church etc. In my experience an atheist has to take a constant, lifelong interest in religion/the church (of whichever creed) in order to prove their point in a serious manner.


What is life about? Are you saying Nietzsche doesn't recognise the importance of religion to people? The opposite is true.

I'm not making a generalisation about atheists. I'm not saying they all feel a loss of meaning.

As an atheist what point about religion am I trying prove? Religious people are making a claim about the world so the burden of proof lies with them, atheists don't have to anything to prove.



Also, the assumed ''lack of spirituality'' an atheist is meant to experience by abandoining god is well and truly a myth. You are not abandoning spirituality as such, since that is completely impossible for a person to do, you are abandoning the theory of the big bang, the creation of earth by a superior being, and all the subsequent apparatus that reinforces those theories. You still live, breathe, and have a soul like everyone else.


How do you define spirituality?


Yes I live and breath but don't know what that has to do with whatever you mean by "spirituality" and I don't know what a "soul" is whatever you would define that as.

I'm not abandoning the theory of big bang.