No, b/c while Craig is mortal, James will live forever! I would be sad if people I know and love died, though. And yeah, Internet mourning--it's electronic, it's not love.

Rob, we're talking about a person who died here, not about a "music genre", that's the difference.
Everyone is entitled to his opinions, but posting that stuff in a thread where people shown some kind of attachment to this dead man/his music seemed quite rude and unnecessary to me.
That's all.
I'll be the first in line to rep you when you'll post something similar about steve vai, btw :D.

hey nicfit. in all honesty, yr right. my comment was snark callousness. while his music was not my main thang, it is (from the 30-45 minutes I have heard) definitely something whose loss should merit more respect from me than if some worthless pop asshole were to die.

sorry for the thoughtlessness.

i seem to remember you saying it's ok to shit talk dead people when you got called out for a kurt cobain joke thread? neg repped,mentally, i can't actually do it haha

Kurt Cobain, a heroin junky and an overall shitty person from various accounts, killed himself. I feel no sympathy for someone who kills themself -- ESPECIALLY if you bring a daughter into this world. Don't fucking have children unless you're planning on taking care of them. Anyway, it was Kurt's life, he did what he wanted -- he wanted to die. So, why not celebrate? I don't understand "mourning" his loss at all... he took his own life, deliberately, seems like something to be happy about, since he got what he wanted, right?

Jack Rose... his death is actually quite tragic. He just bought a house, he just got signed to Drag City, he had been working hard, driving by himself from show to show for years for little or no money, there is no comparison between him and spoiled rock star millionaire "oh-woe-is-me" Kurt.

And I love a lot of Nirvana songs, so I'm not anti-Cobain or anti-Nirvana, and I do think it's okay to make fun of dead people, but I just felt this was a little soon,and a little disrespectful since it is so soon... Also, I'm pretty sure Jack Rose never had a single song with acoustic guitar wankery. His playing was extremely skilled, and his songs were extremely composed.

...Rob just made a really stupid comment. I'm not going to say I never have made any myself, because I do regret a few things I said on here... but I don't think it's hypocritical or anything for me to say that I feel more sad over Jack Rose's death than Kurt Cobain's.

cznt beleive im just hearing about this, im out of the loop, kinda surprising.

you did mention kurt is a dick for offing himself when he has a child so there's a reason not to be happy about it,his kid.

rob didn't say anything particularly insulting about the guy, he just checked out the music and said he didn't like it,fine,there's no music that everyone likes. it was stupid and probably in bad taste to say he died because his music was bad but oh well,and it sounds like he's looking forward to making fun of steve vai when he dies too,while his albums are pretty lame i figure vai deserves to live so that's sort of dumb. i don't think you would have neg repped him if it was an artist you didn't like

Re: Kurt having a kid, I think that's the only tragic thing about his death. His actual death wasn't sad at all. He got what he wanted, all I'm saying. I think we should be happy for him. Too bad his child had to suffer.

And you're right, I probably wouldn't have cared about Rob's comment if it wasn't an artist I liked, but that's kind of an obvious point to make... on the same token, would Rob have made the comment about an artist he liked? Obviously not. But it's not like his comment offended me, it was just kind of retarded in general. Jack's music is amazing.

I've given 3 negative reps ever in my years on this board. So it takes a lot to make me feel like giving one, but that particular comment made me feel kinda icky. THat's all.

Oh Rob, you instigator you.....

Oops. Bad emoticon, under the circumstances. But fuck, Man, I don't think Cobain "wanted" to die. He was just so fucked up. It was just as sad as this.

BTW, this thread turned me on to listening to Jack Rose, and he was fuckin good, so there. Thanks.

Fuuuuuck, Man. And on the official SNY board too?

I still love you though.

IDK how old most of y'all are, but to me, Nevermind was like the Beatles first....an eruption, and really fucking great songwriting anchoring it all.....

But I digress. Anyway, it was sad, just as this latest news is sad.

I just don't personally find anything "tragic" about people who take their lives on purpose. There is sadness attached to that, obviously.. he won't be able to make more music, his daughter won't have a father, etc. But suicide itself doesn't seem very tragic to me. I mean, he's kind of a selfish person to some people, but perhaps it's more selfish for people to wish he was still alive when he clearly didn't want to be.

It's a touchy subject, either way. I just think there's a difference between someone dying of a heart attack as his hard work was starting to pay off, versus some junky millionaire shooting himself. I suppose they're both tragic, to some people, in different ways.

I didn't want to mention Kurt but it was brought up. We can't have a simple rest in peace thread without debates.

Today marks the 29th anniversary of John Lennon's murder. I remember that event hitting me hard.

ahhh , but it was FUNNY! if you don't find it funny, that's YR issue man.

in december 5th, 1980, my family moved to Houston TX from Puerto Rico.

On December 8th, 1980 John lennon was murdered.

On December 9th, 1980 we went to a quiet and subdued chuck E Cheese Pizza to celebrate my younger brother's 5th birthday.

Re: Kurt Cobain.

you describe him as a "junkie millionaire", as if this makes it OK t not care that he felt so SHITTY he took his own life.

that reduces a human being to two attibutes, one of which he was not under control of. he did not choose to be a "millionaire"./ It just happened. as far as beinga junkie, that is a human's own personal issues, and does nto detract from his art, or his influence.

Miles Davis was a junkie and he was GOD

as cold as it sounds, i kinda agree. suicide is PATHETIC. a guy i graduated a couple years ahead and dated his sister just hanged himself the day after he got dumped. its sad, especially for the family, but then people were starting to equate the tragedy with the death of my friend who died after a three year battle with a brain tumor, someone who fought every inch for their life is not in the same realm as giving it up. so fucking stupid, not exactly a decision you can take back. life is so rare, the idea of cutting it short for anything seems absurd, espeially in some cases when it really just seems like the person couldnt handle their shit.

i think, like all things, the "patheticness" of the suicide is wholly dependent upon the situation, and where you are seeing it from.

It is, I feel, an inalienable human right to end one's life as one sees fit, when one sees fit.

There are, as Kurt Vonnegut has written about, many many fates worse than death.

one person will never ever know what another is truly going through inside, and therefore should reserve judgement of the choice to kill themselves.

It is after all THEIR life and no one elses.

No one should need to revert to suicide though. If someone's life is that bad then they must change their life to how they want it to be even if this would be a feat for some (like Cobain, who's heroin habit would probably be hard to kick... but people have given it up in the past and people will give it up in the future you hear?).

There is always shit in our life and it's our job to face them head on and delete them. Get a divorce, buy a puppy, whatever. Though on the other hand, I do agree that people have the right to end their lives but I only think suicide is an option if someone has reached rock bottom with no way of escaping.

but who are we to judge what another person's "rock bottom" is?
we cannot do that.
No one ever knows.

Let's list the best songs about suicide!

Metallica - Fade To Black

Jimi Hendrix Experience - I Don't Live Today

Mudhoney - By Her Own Hand

Hot Chocolate/Sisters of Mercy/Urge Overkill - Emma/Emmaline

your idealism is inspiring, but I may be too cynical and jaded to truly believe this.

Maybe it's just my youthful optimistic mind but is life really that bad for most (I repeat, MOST) people that they need to kill themselves? I mean, your life is pretty great if you have shelter and food on the table every night. Now people starving in Burkina Faso or such other country, I could understand if they wanted to end their lives because they have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And Kurt Cobain was a millionaire who lived in a massive house with maids to prepare him meals. His heroin addiction maybe lead him to kill himself but it's not like he didn't have the necessary support to kick his habit. He instead thought he would self-medicate with heroin to cure his stomach ills because he was too ignorant to get proper medical attention.

I don't know, maybe it's not that simple. I've never did heroin nor do I plan to.

shit, people don't kill themselves for material reasons, it's emotional, it doesn't make a difference if you live in burkina faso or kurt's mansion. poor people tend to appreciate their life more(and most africans follow religions which are against suicide) so basically fuck that.
i mean it's a pretty big decision to kill yrself so people who do it have thought it through, i think it's fine, if you don't want to live why should you? but it is still absolutely tragic because the person obviously suffered horribly before it happened, and it's going to be hard times for those around them after

Well I still stand by my opinion, though people can do what they like with their lives.

And I know it's emotional. But any problems people have can be overcome eventually.

Im not being faecetious but the fact that when my brain decays and dies means the end of my personality and being (or if you prefer to define those things another way, soul) is a greater motivation to keep going than the prospect of being judged at the gates of St Peter.

We, as human beings, have so much potential that to cut ourselves short over some problems would be a shame.

I agree Derek, but tell that to chronic pain sufferers, to termially ill people, to people who ahve no family, friends, support system and they just don;t care anymore.
Kurt Cobain became a junkie (from what I ahve read) not because he was a drug lover, but becauise he progressed in pain killers to fight his stomach/intestinal pain. Pain is a fucking BITCH, real, physical pain, or real emotional pain. It can and does become unbearable.
The man had a fucking FREAK as his support system, as his baby's mom. (courtney love ) can you imagine what support that crackhead would ive to Kurt? probably just more junk.

becoming rich and famous means everyone knows you superfluously, yet no one ever knows you close and personal. it is hard to maintain the friends one had before they got rich and world famous. it is hard to make new friends that are not sycophants.

kurt had no family to lean on right? I mean, they were all estranged pretty severaly right?

lets make it clear that none of the stories have said Jack Rose killed himself, the topic has just strayed off onto other tangent

true. Mr Rose died of a heart attack correct?

thats what it said when i checked back, i realised i was posting about suicide in a thread about someone who's cause of death i hadnt looked into

Well that's what I meant with someone hitting rock bottom. Something like that is what I'd definitely consider rock bottom since none of these things one can change.Well hey, this is quite good discussion. How often do you get that on here? Hahaha.

I just don't find anything "tragic" about a person who kills himself (aside from, you know, his daughter not having a dad!). Murder is tragic. Acccidents are tragic. Diseases are tragic. Just don't find anything tragic about a person blowing their brains out. Sorry.

So, one could inevitably question why I find Mr. Rose's death tragic. I'm sure he brought a lot of it upon himself. Still, I highly doubt he wanted to die. So, yeah, there's a big difference there, to me.

Regardless, joking about anyone's death is going to offend someone, but I just kinda feel like joking about Michael Jackson and Kurt Cobain is a bit different than joking about Jack Rose. It has nothing to do with whose music I prefer, I just feel like... Jack wasn't some rich-ass millionaire dude like these publicly-loved and -adored people, he was more just someone like me and you. Just a hard working musician. I dunno, I guess I feel more tore up over someone who is somewhat like me, than someone who has maids and has millions of dollars and has the adoration of millions of people. Jack isn't someone well-known, he isn't going to get tons of sympathy, no MTV news stories or magazine articles. It just feels kinda.. just.. wrong... to make fun of him in any way, to me. His life wasn't any more or less valuable or precious than anyone else's, but I feel like being cut down just as he was reaching some success after working hard for years is pretty damn tragic, to me. Maybe not to anyone else, who hasn't followed his career for years. But anyway.

...And you know, I probably wouldn't care at all either way, Rob's comment was just kinda retarded in general, as I've said elsewhere. I think Rose's music was the furthest thing removed from wankery I can think of. Just felt like a weird time to insult his musicianship..?!

....But that was days ago, let's move on!

let's don't forget the topic of this thread end enjoy this beautiful video from Lance Bangs: http://vimeo.com/8004926

NY Times obit (w/ my photo):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/ar...Rose%22&st=cse

wankery is wankery, whether it is drone folk, bluegrass, metal, etc.

wank is one of the best parts of music

See? This thread only shows that there are people who STILL can't get over Kurt's death.

I listened to Kensington Blues this afternoon and Jack Rose from the dead.
Genius, he was!

Not to drag this out, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. I mean by lumping all of these together are you implying that anything difficult to play is by definition wankery? Sure, Rose's music was very 'complex' in a lot of ways, but it was delivered with so much beautiful directness of purpose that as far as I'm concerned it's pretty much fucking punk.

Wankery = endless guitar solos, overly-technical show-off bullshit.

Rose's music was actually quite simple for the most part (though the compositions were really well-thought-out and the songwriting was amazing). What he was actually playing wasn't too difficult most of the time, but yeah... no wanking at all.

I listened to OPIUM MUSICK this morning. Sigh.