^ well I think it's good that she has a strong sense of faith.
and personally....I think if one truely believes certain things within a religion, they can lead a better life than without. There are a lot of people who do need a sense of "guidance" and if religion helps them....why fucking bash it? I've seen people blindly and ignorantly talk about religion and a bunch of other stuff...but I've also seen how it can help a person's mind. and if I was able to live like them with a lighter load on their minds...I would.

hevusa, when on this topic of religion n shit. yer just as bad as the "dipshit believers" who go into debates just bashing the opposing side.

I am blown away. Not many ppl yr age ponder such things:)

When a Christian wants to deny two adults from getting married because of a "belief" they hold it is hard to view them as anything but dipshits. And yes, this is the majority view out there in America right now. DIPSHITS!

If one has any kind of intellectual integrity you simply can't believe in God. There are too many possibilities that are eliminated with this kind of mentality. A "dipshit" might be a little harsh of a word but it gets the point across. Fire with fire.


I got a catholic block
inside my head
I let it go to work
Bring it all back home

It serves you right
And I can motor down
You got to earn yr freedom
Get it on my own

I don't know shit, but I do believe in greater possibilities than the limitations of your mind allow you to explore. I am so dangerous huh??? If I was a non-beleiver i would probably be a very dangerous person. I like to do what I want to do. I don't care about death or consequence, but because I believe in GOD I think twice before being selfish. If I had no belief I would probably be killing ppl that piss me off in traffic and taking whatever I want to make ME happy.

Selfishness is dangerous.

Bullshit, you just have a limited idea of what god is supposed to represent. Nothing is absolute in this territory, it's a concept, and you're acting with a relatively equal ignorance as the people you're purporting to attack in this thread...

thanx man. I mean that is why I believe. It makes my life more tolerable. Ppl can call me weak all they want, but I am not too egotistical to admit that I am only human and I NEED not just want GOD in my life. I have talked to him and he has answered. I have lived my own small miracles. My faith has given stability to a very unhealthy mind.

Damn!You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to EVOLghost again

Look, no one knows how all of this started. Yeah you can have tons of theories from both sides of the coin (religious and scientific) but no one can prove or disprove if there is a God or not as at this point of time it is beyond our knowledge. The fact that you say people with intellectual integrity can't believe in God is ridiculous, most of the people that originally went against the findings of the Church were Christians. Galileo, Copernicus etc. Hell, even Charles Darwin was Christian (and some of his findings are used to denounce God and religion, which I'm sure was not his original intention with what he found).

What is God supposed to represent? Who decides what attributes something has when they can't prove it even exists in the first place? Do you get to make up the rules?

also as far i as i know enstein had no problem with the idea of god.

Then being agnostic, like I am, is the only reasonable point of view is what you are saying. I can't argue with that. But just because someone does good scientific research doesn't mean they have intellectual integrity when it comes to God.

Darwin was agnostic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics).

Einstein was largely an atheist(also denied this label by association) but wouldn't entirely deny the existence of a god... just not anything a generalized human view of totes(toted) as being that.

And you have intellectual integrity when it comes to God? :rolleyes:

No, but he didn't "believe".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics

Yes, I'm agnostic. You can't have any more intellectual integrity when it comes to God than to be agnostic. But this is also true of the invisible, pink, omni-present elephant I have living in my refrigerator.

Well I AM NOT THE MAJORITY as I have already stated.

I have more Itelectual integrity in my pinky than you will ever be able to conjure out of your empty miserable existance.

Am I calling nonchristains "DIPSHITS" cause they don't think like me? NO!

yr a fuckin hypocrite

and btw thuirston & kim were married in a catholic church by a roman catholic priest and I love that fuckin song because of the versus you just quoted. I do believe you have misinterpreted his point though. Maybe you should do a bit more "intillectual resarch" before you start assuming things. Do you even know anything about them that is not based on folk lore?

By your logic Sonic Youth is a danger and they fall squarely into your little judgemental box.

I earned my freedom I got it on my own. I took what I was given logically examined and pondered and spiritually as well and I have decided for myself that this is who I want to be.

Is your avatar a warning for everyone else?

suppose the word in vogue would be agnostic.

The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)

True my dear knox. ppl tend to forget so easily.

yes, why not?

Thurston has openly stated that it's sarcastically anti-Catholic, not that this really matters, Sonic Youth on one side or the other isn't lending great strength to that point...

hm

Sounds to me like you just drink too much if you are seeing elephants

i like the part "i have more intellectual integrity when it comes to god than einstein"

as for catholics, they're obviously wrong. just look at user glice and you can tell.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to knox again.

That was beautiful

I'm glad you consider yourself "open minded" but you are so sure about this belief in God. Not very open minded after all...

sure you do drugs, promote gay marriage and the legalization of marijuana. but when it comes to God your belief allows only one possibility. Why? WTF is that all about? Why not just be curious about it all and have some integrity about God?

And this is why I love music so much!!!!

I only know for certain that Thurston believes. I can hear the Lee does in every song he writes. There is a positive reference to spirituallity in most of his work, especially now that they are older. Albums like ATL, Murray Street and Nurse and the fucking eternal are riddled with little clues that no one would care to notice unless they themselves were spiritual.

I only know what I have researched about them and what I have HEARD THEM SAY in thier songs. I don't know the exact nature of thier beliefs, but they do not strike me as the type of ppl to not accept things that others do not. I do know that they are a group who questions EVERYTHING even the world of logic.

What is that one possibility you speak of?

Me too music makes me FEEL. The world of spiritual energy is all about feeling not seeing.

That one or more exist. Why can't none exist?

Courtney Love believes in satisfying herself with roman catholic incense burners

That none exist. Why can't one or more exist?

same goes to you. you're as thick as the most fanatic religious person.

They could!!!! But so could the flying spaghetti monster.
I have NEVER denied that a God could exist... that is why I'm agnostic.

If none exist than I have lost nothing. I have gained a lifetime of good intentions and love. If I believe in nothing I have lost all of existance there is no meaning and I should not care for anything but me. This leads to a life of selfishness and hate towards others for me. The only things that really make me happy are

1. pills (i am honest I know this still workin it out)
2. making someone else happy


I could give a fuck less about anything else. I lost my $3000 engagement ring yesterday and I was more concerned about it hurting my husband's feelings than the stupid ring. I dont care about that object as much as I care about him.

I'm a believer in existence being divine, its a fact, but its most certainly confusing, and there is a lot that is unknown.

If I were to play the fool and take a guess, god would entail every fiber of existence, therefore you're all a piece of god. So are these words, every connotation, Antimatter discovered by scientists recently, this cat, his fur, throw-up, psychological makeup, dna.

I know they're spiritual Gail but... what that means varies. I don't deny it, I'm just portraying a stance of neutrality that I myself fall on because of the nature of life. I'm inclined to be that way, it's not entirely expressive of what I feel but it's what it is for the time being.

now is the only thing that's real.

Sorry, but that sounds REALLY selfish. If "salvation", or whatever you want to call it, is the only thing that gives you meaning or morality then there are other issues that you need to address.

Agnostics/Atheists do not lose their sense of purpose, morality or love.

I like the way you are approaching it. You are accepting and not judgemental to either party. None of us are "right" THough some do believe that they are.:)