Originally Posted by Kyohan

That is so much more difficult to do than an album's worth of white noise.
Rather Ripped is a good example of that.

Originally Posted by Danny Himself

If they had sold out, they'd be making super-entertainment shit like Velvet Revolver or Green Day. SY have not becoming boring, or any less experimental.

Originally Posted by Kyohan

Yeh, that's what I was trying to get at. A lot of the music that's most interesting to me allows artists to appeal to a more mainstream audience by using "pop" structures, while maintaining depth for those who want to find it.
That is so much more difficult to do than an album's worth of white noise.
Rather Ripped is a good example of that.

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

I really hate saying it, I've been fighting it off for some time, but I feel must say that if Sonic Youth are going to progress on their current trajectory, they should break up. They are by all means my favorite band still around today, but out of their last four albums, including RR, the only one that's had me excited at all when I listened to it for the first time (or on subsequent listens) is "Sonic Nurse". On that album there were again interesting textures, STRONG, not-phoned-in jams, dark-and-felt melodies ("I Love You Golden Blue", which I ADORE), and some actually rockin' tunes. NYCGF had it's free-jazz moments which were nice, reminded me of good Coltrane or Ra; Murray Street had the epic and beautiful "Sympathy...", and Rather Ripped has a few three-star jams...but in general, these three albums are pretty ridiculous coming from Sonic Youth. Am I saying they have to constantly be noisy? No, not at all. Am I saying they can't change? Nope. Three of my favorite SY albums are DDN, Washing Machine, and Bad Moon Rising, which all sound absolutely nothing alike. What I'm getting at is that they're getting too, um, safe. I can understand the desire to write good pop tunes, but the thing is, they already did that! "Unwind", "Teenage Riot", "100%", "Sunday", etc...all great pop songs. But they're so incredibly ADVENTUROUS at the same time. And I guess that's what I'm missing. Yes, I own the SYRs, and I listen to them and enjoy them. But they didn't used to have to syphon all their interesting and experimental stuff into side-releases. The only thing that, for me personally, is interesting on "Ripped" is "Or", but it's completely marred by Thurston's ridiculous in-the-tour-bus scribblings. I'm sure this is offensive, and it hurts me more to say it than it could possibly hurt anyone to read it. I guess, for me, it's just that I didn't get into SY because they wrote good songs. I got into them because they scared the hell out of me with their ideas of what songs could be, what "pretty" could be, what "rockin'" could be, what "sad" could sound like. I don't need a standard indie rock album from them. And even Sonic Nurse is dangerously close to that for me (with the exception of "Golden..."). The only reason I have Ripped is because I got it for free with my ticket to their CB's show at the beginning of the tour (which was a complete let down, by the way. I didn't want to hear the "hits" of yesteryear (Schiz, or Teenage Riot, etc.), but I did want to be given something more than a set that consisted entirely of their new album (which I don't like) in order). In the end, I just worry that they've gotten complacent. At least NYCGF wasn't very good because it was an experiment that didn't quite work out. I'd take that over an album of safe, MOR rock songs any day.

T

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

I really hate saying it, I've been fighting it off for some time, but I feel must say that if Sonic Youth are going to progress on their current trajectory, they should break up. They are by all means my favorite band still around today, but out of their last four albums, including RR, the only one that's had me excited at all when I listened to it for the first time (or on subsequent listens) is "Sonic Nurse". On that album there were again interesting textures, STRONG, not-phoned-in jams, dark-and-felt melodies ("I Love You Golden Blue", which I ADORE), and some actually rockin' tunes. NYCGF had it's free-jazz moments which were nice, reminded me of good Coltrane or Ra; Murray Street had the epic and beautiful "Sympathy...", and Rather Ripped has a few three-star jams...but in general, these three albums are pretty ridiculous coming from Sonic Youth. Am I saying they have to constantly be noisy? No, not at all. Am I saying they can't change? Nope. Three of my favorite SY albums are DDN, Washing Machine, and Bad Moon Rising, which all sound absolutely nothing alike. What I'm getting at is that they're getting too, um, safe. I can understand the desire to write good pop tunes, but the thing is, they already did that! "Unwind", "Teenage Riot", "100%", "Sunday", etc...all great pop songs. But they're so incredibly ADVENTUROUS at the same time. And I guess that's what I'm missing. Yes, I own the SYRs, and I listen to them and enjoy them. But they didn't used to have to syphon all their interesting and experimental stuff into side-releases. The only thing that, for me personally, is interesting on "Ripped" is "Or", but it's completely marred by Thurston's ridiculous in-the-tour-bus scribblings. I'm sure this is offensive, and it hurts me more to say it than it could possibly hurt anyone to read it. I guess, for me, it's just that I didn't get into SY because they wrote good songs. I got into them because they scared the hell out of me with their ideas of what songs could be, what "pretty" could be, what "rockin'" could be, what "sad" could sound like. I don't need a standard indie rock album from them. And even Sonic Nurse is dangerously close to that for me (with the exception of "Golden..."). The only reason I have Ripped is because I got it for free with my ticket to their CB's show at the beginning of the tour (which was a complete let down, by the way. I didn't want to hear the "hits" of yesteryear (Schiz, or Teenage Riot, etc.), but I did want to be given something more than a set that consisted entirely of their new album (which I don't like) in order). In the end, I just worry that they've gotten complacent. At least NYCGF wasn't very good because it was an experiment that didn't quite work out. I'd take that over an album of safe, MOR rock songs any day.

T

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

If they were to break up or go back to their old style because that's what people want or because people just don't like the new album, for whatever reason, I would consider that a form of selling out. It's not being true to themselves musically. Right now, they want to remain a band. If they decide to break up right now, then that's fine. But it's their choice. They should do what they feel is best for themselves, what will propel them in the direction they want. Even if that is a "lack of depth." They've proven themselves incredibly capable of making good music. If there is a lack of depth (which I do agree with to some extent), it's there for a reason.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I can see where you are coming from, but to me it is all about phases with sonic youth.
no wave (sonic youth, confusion and to a large extent BMR)
noise rock (evol, sister, daydream antion, goo, dirty)
free form experimentation (EJST&NS, SYR's, NYC ghost)
and now we are in a phase where sonic youth are exploring their melodies (wahsing, murray, nurse, ripped)

sonic youth ahs always been about the confluence of noise and beauty. they always had and have both working, sometimes noise to a greater degree (BMR, confusion), sometimes melody to a greater degree (EJST&NS, Murray, Nurse) and I feel rather ripped is their most melodic album to date. if any single indie rock band had released RR other than sonic youth the indie underground would be salivating over it's tasty sounds and melodies and hooks, YES HOOKS, sonic youth can write HOOKS!

daydream nation is the masterpiece it is because it amalgamated everything sonic youth love to do, melodies, noise, experimentation, into one complete package.

thank goodness sonic youth does not repeat themselves.

I just do not see how people can complain they are softening up when their SYR series takes expereimental rock to heights (or lows, depending on how you like them) that noone ever has done before.

and on ripped and nurse and murray they are exploring actual songcraft. most of the murray songs were written by thurston on a n acoustic guitar. that is sonic youth experimenting. enjopy it for what it is, rather ripped is afantastic rocking melodic album, and yes, it is packed to the brim with TASTEFULLY DONE NOISE, dig? the noise serves the melody in this al bum's case.

in bad moon rising the melody served the noise splendor.

I am not saying people do not have a right to dislike output buy this, the single greatest band in the history of music, but to lay such vehement ill sentiment upon these, my gods of rock, gods of skronk, it hurts me a lot. I don;t know. it really does. it is like a patriot gets when someone puts down their motherland.

I think rather ripped is actually more subversive to mainstream rock than most of what they ahve done in the past. it shows that you can use sonic skronk and sonic tunings to create BEAUTY, straight up BEAUTY, and I love it

I have listened to RR every day for weeks now. I find skronk hidden in there, nuggets of sonic skronk to tease my ears and please my brain.

long live sonic youth

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

Okay, I'm saying I THINK they should break up. How's that? Isn't a message board a good place for opinions?

"Unmade Bed" and "I Love You Golden Blue" are good examples of what Jim enabled them to do once again (of course they didn't used to need Jim to do it...)

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I don;t think you know what selling out is if you think that sonic youth releasing a record as melodic and rockin as RR is selling out man.

selling out is compromising your stated values for purely monetary gain. now, what monetary gain are sonic youth getting? what gain at all? they will sell around 100 thousand copies of this album, far less than dirty or goo. they have not released an MTV worthy video and are not on the BUZZ rotation. they have not plastered themselves all over the airwaves. You are lucky if you hear a song off of RR on the college radio.

fucking grow up. for sonic youth, an album like RR IS experimentation. don;t you get it? after 20 years thurston started writing songs based on an acoustic guitar (murray street) after TWENTY YEARS.
to continue in the same standard songwriting form that they perfected over 20 years is pointless for aband like sonic yotuh who treat their existance as an art project and not a BAND.

you have no fucking clue what selling out is.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I don;t think you know what selling out is if you think that sonic youth releasing a record as melodic and rockin as RR is selling out man.

selling out is compromising your stated values for purely monetary gain. now, what monetary gain are sonic youth getting? what gain at all? they will sell around 100 thousand copies of this album, far less than dirty or goo. they have not released an MTV worthy video and are not on the BUZZ rotation. they have not plastered themselves all over the airwaves. You are lucky if you hear a song off of RR on the college radio.

fucking grow up. for sonic youth, an album like RR IS experimentation. don;t you get it? after 20 years thurston started writing songs based on an acoustic guitar (murray street) after TWENTY YEARS.
to continue in the same standard songwriting form that they perfected over 20 years is pointless for aband like sonic yotuh who treat their existance as an art project and not a BAND.

you have no fucking clue what selling out is.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

and you ahve the right to be wrong too and to be corrected.

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

I do not like Rather Ripped.

Originally Posted by finding nobody

i thought you did?