Yeah- but it's called ethnocentrism. :)

i don't think that would be the same thing

no because "ethno" relates to ethnicity so it's not the same thing at all.

refreshing music.

I have to say I think it´s very refreshing here´s a thread about the band who is singing with some other language than English (has there been thread from another non-english band?) Pop music is so USA-England centered and sometimes I think also the whole world is. I have to admit that most of the records I have is also sung in English, but I have also started to listen more and more music that is not english-sung.

^^absolutely. It was very refreshing for me to discover this band becuase I'm from midwest USA and honestly don't get exposed to much stuff like this.

And I am a huge beatles/Syd Barret/psychedelic fan/british pop fan but in my opinion, if the military government of brazil hadnt banned os mutantes, and the record industry wasnt so biased....and they got the press that other bands got at that time....

that they would have BLOWN AWAY the beatles.

The creativity, melodies, and everything are there to back up that statement.

The dictatorship never banned the Mutantes and they were huge.

They weren't huge in the states back then...

Maybe I misunderstood this quote from their wiki page (not that everything on wiki is true)

They played with many artists of this period, including Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil, prior to their arrest and subsequent exile. During the 1960s, Os Mutantes was threatened by the military government of Brazil of that time.

"Ethnocentrism is the tendency to believe that one's ethnic or cultural group is centrally important, and that all other groups are measured in relation to one's own. The ethnocentric individual will judge other groups relative to his or her own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behavior, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and sub-divisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity.[1]"

The world you're looking for is ethnocentrism. It covers culture, and is not strictly related to "ethnicity".

Besides... there's an ethnic difference at play as well. Unless you believe that Caucasians and Portugese are part of the same ethnic group, which they are not.

Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil were arrested and left, not the Mutantes. It's a confusing sentence. As for being threatened, everyone was. The Mutantes are known for their cryptic lyrics against dictatorship and using foreign musical references as a way to protest against it.

Portuguese are not caucasian?
What?

Also, you do realise that Brazil is one of the most mixed countries in the world, right? Which would mean your argument doesn't even make that much sense.

Ah! Thanks for clearing that up Knox.

im gonna be nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BliqS...feature=fvwrel

you live in usa i guess?


because everyone else knows the true and real king of pop music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwaqKvl0ABo

I think that creative music period was everywhere then. Even in Ethiopia, under the dicatorship of Haile Selassie deloped great music. I think you might be interested about that also, you can start from excellent Ethiopiques-compilations.

Damn I had no idea the creative buzz and psychedelic spirit spread that far.

Quite inspirational.

Know where I could find anything like that?

ethiopiques compilations don't really have much in common with os mutantes.

i'd put the artists on ethiopiques more in the jazz in and soul spectrum, where as os mutantes are pretty beatles

the only thing it really shows is that other people are openminded to music and anglos aren't

and that's why we have to listen to lady gaga and fleet foxes.

the majority of the people everywhere i've been to isn't very open minded and is listening to lady gaga and fleet foxes.

I have a very good friend from Brazil. I've known her since high school. If you told her there was no ethnic difference between her home and, say, New York, she'd smack you silly. And if you called her white, you'd be in deep shit.

New York is a culturally diverse city. So what? American and Portuguese cultures and ethnic identities are completely different.

No, what what's-his-name was talking about is called "ethnocentrism". If an American had an aversion to the language, music, religion, or customs of another culture just because it wasn't "American", he/she would be displaying "ethnocentric" tendencies.

But who cares? I was making a clearly bad joke about knee-jerk liberalism, and it was only a speck of the content of my main thought (which was that I've always liked Os Mutantes, but have been distracted by the vocals). I don't want to get into a semantic argument.

I'm thinking there are two main things you need to understand:

There isn't ONE Brazilian ethnicity, it's a VERY diverse country: Portuguese, African, Dutch, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, German, Polish, Turkish, Lebanese, Russian, Natives, Korean and Chinese are some of the main ethnicities found here, while a great part of the population is mixed, in varying degrees.

Of course there isn't a north american ethnicity either, but I feel silly having to tell you that.

Having a friend doesn't make you any kind of expert, seeing that you were the one who actually believed that Spanish was spoken in Brazil. Which means either your friend hasn't been telling you much or you haven't been listening.

Oh, and also, the Portuguese are caucasian. Does that upset you in any way? Because it's sort of like... a fact. That nobody should care enough about to even say it's not true.

I know americans like to refer to south americans as "latinos", but that completely ignores the history of many south american countries. It's like you're trying to say Gisele Bundchen is not white, lol.

and if any of those places aren't majority anglophone then there's plenty of people there who will listen to things that aren't in their own language


like you have to be pretty open to the world to look like this when you aren't american





everyone in the world who isn't a swiss yuppy with a smartcar listens to rap yo, but here in the heart of america's hat nobody wants to listen to people talk fast if they don't speak english

like in france most stores would have an os mutantes cd.

it would be in the brazil section

but in america there isn't a brazil section, because if you live in brazil best buy doesn't want to sell yr music, because not alot of people want to hear yr music, because you live in brazil and that means you speak spanish "i hear enough of that language on the bus, i want to put on some keith urban now and forget that not everyone speaks english"

it's ok here to be foreign and play music at the same time, as long as you're an australian who acts american

what a romantic view.
i don't know what a think of a brazil section...
is it where they put brazilian hardcore or metal?
weird.

Who wasn't?

Portuguese are Caucasian, but in terms of ethnic identity, they would consider themselves unique from North American Caucasians. At least my friend does. She gets deeply upset, also, when ignoramuses tell her to "say something in Spanish". You're right that I'm not an expert, but based on experience I can make inferences.

Either way, if an American were to believe that a band from Brazil sucked just because they didn't speak his language, the name for that tendency is ethnocentrism. "Hey, that's not AMERICAN! If it's not AMERICAN it's not GOOD. AMERICAN stuff is the only GOOD stuff!!". That's ethnocentrism.

Anyway weren't we talking about some band at some point?

But weren't YOU the one who said we spoke Spanish?
Are you trying to confuse me or are you calling yourself ignoramus?
I don't think "they" (Portuguese) would consider themselves "unique" from North American Caucasians (WHATEVER THAT IS). By 'they' I mean 'us'. I think you're confusing the concept of "ethnicity" with the idea of "cultural idendity". But don't worry, I won't explain again.
But I think this entire conversation just illustrates that it's easy to perceive you as the sort of person that you were so concerned about not being perceived as.

No, I simply didn't know that Os Mutantes was Brazillian, honestly. I don't speak Portuguese or Spanish.

However, you might be right about everything. However, I'd still say that cultural identity is a huge part of "ethnocentrism", and that"ethnocentrism" does not strictly refer to ethnicity. In fact, I know this. It is a fact.

So unless you're arguing that ethnocentrism is not what it actually is, we have no disagreement.

However, I see every other point you've made as valid. And honestly, I don't see why we need to argue at all.

please keep going guys, yr debate is super interesting.

who are os mutantes anyway?

it must be a really difficult life being in america and getting upset when people don't know about yr country


i love it when people want me to speak spanish because i'm from bolivia hahha

Most of us associate "ethno" with ethnicity. I know in the US it has been constantly used to refer to "cultural identity" but I'm willing to bet the people who started it are the same who believe there is such as thing as an "american caucasian". So I would avoid using "ethnos-" it if I were you.

eth·no·cen·trism n.1. Belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group.
2. Overriding concern with race.

When I went to NY people would say things like "no way you're from Brazil, you're too white" but at least they were curious and asked questions, while many Europeans view that idea of finding out more about other cultures more threatening than fascinating.

do you think the too white thing might be why people are curious instead threatened?

i mean obviously it varies from person to person but i bet if you were a black man who sucks at english people might be more threatened


also there's a big difference between visiting a place and moving to it

like most americans are nice to everybody, in the united states i'm confident most people will put their biases aside and help out anyone who needs them.

but americans might become equally or more biased against other cultures if they payed attention to them

i mean they started paying attention to islamic countries now, and look what happened there

but i mean people also get stabbed for being mexican, and most of the people who do that sort of thing probably think brasil is an island off the coast of mexico so don't feel too tolerated

in europe more people will hate you but you can still be weird and have some people like you

in america it's like a full time job to prove you aren't weird and stupid(extra hard when you are lol) and can act just like the locals

and if you fail you're going to run an unprofitable cafe or carry bricks around and never have any friends except that one guy from yr country who you don't like at all

lol brown people!!!

now you're being bias.
and nobody hates me, everybody likes me.
EVERYWHERE.

people think brazil is spanish all the time

but i never see anyone say that anywhere near the street where the hot dog guy who always has brasil written on every single piece of clothing he wears works.

the first time i saw that fellow i was like.... yes, next time somebody says they speak spanish in brazil i'll be able to make them a $20 bet and run over to this guy.

but it never happens

and if everyone i knew wasn't such a broke ass we could look stuff like that up on a cellphone and i could win/lose so much money


and at this point that would be my most viable career option

I know that guy. He's usually a football fan, not a Brazilian. He's not even selling churrasquinho.

no he's brazilian.

i'm sure because nobody who isn't really cares about brazil.

football fans pretty much always like england or italy.


brazil and argentina are popular with foreigners here though

but not many of them are willing to go around in faded green and yellow tracksuits from the 80s.

and most people wouldn't wear a shirt that says "brasil is with "S"

and then have brazil written on their hat,socks,shoes,jacket and swearpants

like if this dude is into brasil to be cool he's not doing well lol

i did meet someone like that in romania

she said she got robbed three times in one day and i assumed it was because she was in a neon yellow outfit screaming "i can't talk to anybody and my car and gun are on the opposite side of the world, take my things please"

but then i saw her put a huge pile of money on a bench and then turn her back to it to pull other valubles out of a massive backpack

haha