I'm not whining, your point is clearly invalid and off-the-cuff and has no sense of reality. I mean, I guess I could almost take it as a complement... whenever I talk about movies from now on, people should say "you sound like the IMDB!" Hey, I just used a big word.. "You sound like the encyclopedia!" If that's how you meant it, then I'm flattered. Thank you for noticing that I know what I'm talking about!

Though I do agree, there is nothing to "get" in any music. You either like it or you don't. There's nothing to understand, it's just sound.

Look, I'm sorry, but you like Phish, and if the above criticism doesn't apply to them moreso than the Magic Band, then I'm some sort of chocolate teapot.

I AM SO GLAD ZAPPA IS DEAD! Now he can only pollute the sonic spectrum through secondary means.....

Glice, haha, sorry for being earnest.

I think I agree with you regarding Trout Mask in every respect. Even if someone doesn't like it, it's hard to deny its influence. It's ahead of its time, even today. And again I think you can trace math rock and many other genres to what it accomplished. Obviously, those genres would have developed eventually but Trout Mask was the first album to do that complex shit where everyone's playing in different time signatures and such -- except, you know, classical music.

It's just such a multi layered album full of so many amazing ideas.. I dunno. I love it. It's too long though, of course, I think it has to be. That's why it kind of overshadows all of Beefheart's better works ("Decals", "Doc", "Ice Cream").

I dunno, I don't want to wax poetic, Beefheart is my favorite musician of all time so I just feel very moved to write a lot about him at any opportunity.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people not liking him though.

See, I don't really like Zappa's music; I LOVE the idea of it but most of his music doesn't really do anything for me. I still am glad it exists though.

apples and oranges you know..
what I like about phish is the ahility of each player to improvise extensively and at the drp of a hat, on any song, at any time, and to maintain a tight cohesiveness as a band. Phish records were nothing compared to listening to trey fucking wail on his guitar at th shows. maybe that is the way with beefheart, although I have never heard of anyone seeing him perform.

have you heard any JAZZ music from before 1960?
have you heard Brubeck?

This encapsulates how I feel about Trout Mask and Beefheart and most prog in general.

this is the most superfluous shit i've ever read but i actually agree with it.


1. you can't say that, it's my opinion and it makes sense to ME so fuck YOU.

2. yeah. i agree there too.

So what you're saying is that Phish do exactly what Beefheart does, but in time signatures and modes and rhythms that you understand and enjoy?

Hang on a second - I'll obviate that one. The above is a rhetorical question - as such, the point of it is that I am making a [n irrevocable] statement.

Yeah, of course. That isn't a ROCK band doing that type of shit though.

I don't really agree with its influence so much, and there were records doing similar things prior, but strip off your emotional attachment to the record and I agree, 40,000%.

Funny thing with Trout Mask was that I didn't enjoy the record at all until I went through an Albert Ayler phase, then it all clicked in a lovely way.

As long as it makes sense to you...

Nope, time sigs don;t bother me. I played classical msuic for 8 years.
what beefheart does BORES me, it is an emotional reactiona nd no matter how much I tell myself rationally that it is important or it is good or that I am missing something, the emotional reaction is still deadly boredom.

What rock records were doing similiar things prior? I'd really like to hear them. I try not to let emotional attachments get in the way with what I think of an album overall; hence why I think bands have greater albums than the ones I often list as my personal favorites.

Trout Mask gives me a headache and has for years. I hate the production on it. But I've always thought it was interesting -- took me a few months to LOVE. I've always liked the spoken word songs the best actually.

John French's drumming alone is amongst the least-boring things I've ever heard in a rock band.

But to each their own...

I will tell you that all of his albums sound a lot different from each other and Trout Mask is not one of my favorites. I'm confident that if you gave "Doc at the Radar Station" a chance, you'd love it. It's almost a punk record at times! Actually, thinking about it now, you can hear a lot of Minutemen in it (which probably explains why Mike Watt covered "dirty blue gene" years later)...

http://rapidshare.com/files/70594450...Radar_Ston.rar

Come on, Rob, for me?

If you hate it, I'll let you neg-rep me till the crows come home!

I am going to soak this up with a clear mind and an open ear OK?

g:):)d

cuz the cantank has the ability to play the moonlight sonata solely through the delicate use of underwater quiffs

ohhh, you should hear those soothing melodies bubble up from the seat of all creation