well sonic youth is wrong then. sister has a more special place in my heart. daydream can't match the raw intensity of songs like catholic block and pipeline. (to be honest i'm splitting hairs. how do you compare things that are both nearly flawless, and distinguishably different from one another?)

Yeah, this. Pretty much.

Again, "favorite" vs. "better." I'll always prefer Sister for my own reasons. That world beating chorus accompanied by absolutely grotesque lyrics on "Tuff Gnarl," and the incredible experience of "Schizophrenia" from start to finish. The beauty of "Kotton Krown." And so on and so on.

I really think SY is best considered in phases. Sister was the absolute apex of the '85-'87 era. They kicked off something new with Daydream Nation. That album is probably an era in itself, although I do see Goo as a sonic continuation of it. But it's hard to measure SY at one perfect moment against SY at another. Sister and Daydream Nation just happened to back-to-back script flips. But Sister was still a punk album (or a no wave album, or whatever you want to call it), while DDN was something else entirely.

But lucky us! Our band dropped these albums, and it doesn't really matter which one is better. Both are incredible and unmatched.

this thread made me want to actually re-listen to these albums. i found that on daydream there are only 4 songs that totally blow me away: teenage riot, the sprawl, the wonder, and hyperstation. on sister there is only one song that doesn't do it for me: hotwire my heart. everything else is gold. please don't be all like WHY YOU NO LIKE DAYDREAM. i love daydream!

this absolutely:

I think Sonic Youth faithfuls are very lucky indeed. Those of us who really love all eras of the band have an almost unparalleled (in the rock world) and totally massive body of work to dig into and feast upon. Few bands get around to releasing as many albums as SY did, let alone great albums, and that's not even taking all the EPs, SYRs, collaborative albums and solo works.

It's not a Dinosaur Jr kind of situation, where the band existed at its best for a few meager years before turning into a caricature of itself for a decade and a half, only to kind of return with some albums that are better than the the worst Dino, but ultimately just sound like lesser rehashings of "classic" Dino. We're much more lucky than, say, Nirvana diehards. I love Nirvana, but if they were my favorite band I'd be frustrated as all hell. Three proper LP's, that's it. Can you imagine? We're absolutely rich by comparison.
Yeah, I was fortunate enough to see them play, but that was a lifetime ago. The memory is not enough.

SY didn't have on-again off-again band dynamics. They were the best version of themselves for decades, and we're still getting caught up with the their archives. They had enough power and sonic diversity over the course of their run of LP's that it's very hard to get sick of any one album or period, let alone the band itself.

Guided By Voices may have a bigger catalogue, but it's also mind numbingly redundant. Flaming Lips may approach Sonic Youth's diversity and lifespan, but they had a few major flops along the way, and now they seem to be a bit stuck. Even the Beatles, whose catalog rivals Sonic Youth's, spent the first quarter of their career playing pretty bland stuff, and didn't get interesting until they were halfway done.

SY is a behemoth. It's awesome that we can have a five page discussion about two albums released in succession that are so completely and utterly different in sound and scope. It's all fucking brilliant though. We're really rather spoiled if you think about it. ;)

Well said.

Well, today´s artists may do few albums and then disappear or start to repeat themselves, but in the sixties-eighties I have quite lots of favourite artists who has done a huge catalog great albums. In the nineties there were also Thinking Fellers & Trumans Water who released quite many great albums. And I don´t want to call Beatles first albums bland even of course their greatest career started in Rubber Soul. There are great songs like Please Please Me, Hard Days Night, And I Love Her, I´ll Be Back, Eight Days a Week, I feel Fine, Every Little Thing, Help, You´ve Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, It´s Only Love, Yesterday etc.

Also it´s quite odd that sixties there came three great albums in a year from some artists, today many of my favourite artists release album in a four or six or even longer years. But of course it´s greater to wait great albums than have a miserable every year.

I love that early-mid Beatles stuff too, really. I can listen to Anthology 1 all the way through with a huge dumb smile on my face. I love A Hard Day's Night, Help!, Please Please Me. Great stuff. But I think things got infinitely better on Rubber Soul, and continued to get exponentially better with each album until the White Album.

sometimes those creative periods where artists crank out like 5 releases in a year are the best. i'm thinking specifically of thanksgiving and sean mccann. both had periods of insane output, got burnt, and tried taking their music in another direction to less success. adrian orange i'm pretty sure just went full brian wilson's smile trying to make a hip-hop record.

Most of the artists who really crank the new releases out these days seem to be mid-level hip-hop acts, releasing "official" mixtape after mixtape to varying degrees of success (often with no success whatsoever, in my opinion.)
I used to be of the opinion that it was better to drop an album a year and take full advantage of creative peaks than to take breaks between albums. But that was a while ago. I can't remember the last time an artist put out multiple truly great LPs in the same year. Now I tend to think one really solid album every two years is pretty much the ideal pace for most groups and artists. Sonic Youth did this... like clockwork, almost. The little mini-albums and EP's and SYR volumes they dropped on the side were icing on the cake, a great outlet for the really out there shit they were playing with. It was a great setup, and I wish more bands would follow that kind of release schedule

I guess Parquet Courts had two pretty color records in 2014... But neither was brilliant. Both Sunbathing Animal and Content Nausea were were good fun, but I wouldn't say the back-to-back releases were entirely necessary.

I do love both the albums Frank Ocean has released in the last ten days, but Endless has a much more experimental vibe to it, which makes it hard to view it as a proper album, especially compared to Blonde. More like a companion EP or some shit.

I'd love it if a truly great band or artist would start cranking out truly great albums at a Beatles-like pace, but as far as I can tell, nobody's up for that. Bob Pollard seems to think he is, but he's not. I don't think I could sing a song from that multi-LP run he was on back in 2014/2015 if I had a gun to my head... even though I'm pretty sure I own all the albums in question.

What about Abbey Road? I know there are many who thinks it´s their best album. My favourites are Revolver, Sgt & Abbey Road, really hard to say which is the best, maybe Revolver if I have to decide. I have really loved White Album always also even there are those "mummy" McCartney songs Obladi, Rocky Raccoon & Honey Pie and that quite funny Ringo Don´t Pass me by. The rest of the album is just dynamite! Like many I long thought Let It be is much lower than those earlier albums and still think there came lots of greater albums in 1970, but few years ago started to love it also. Across the Universe, I Me Mine, Get Back, Let It Be and the Long and Winding Road are songs no-one making these days. And the rest of the album is not also bad.

This has been talked about but to me SY & Beatles reminds each other lot more than for example SY & Stones. Sy was kind of Punk Beatles.

I love Abbey Road. "I Want You (she's so heavy)" is one of my absolute favorite Beatles songs. But I think White Album is the best. I personally really love this "mummy" McCartney you refer to. "Rocky Raccoon"'is one of my favorites too, and I actually really love "Don't pass me by." I just think White Album was peak Beatles. That's just me though.


Totally agree.

Haha, nice troll...

They had already made that in Evol.

Daydream Nation was the album that kicked me in to Sonic Youth world so it's always a very special album for me. Sister was second SY-album I bought (and heard). I really like all Sonic Youth albums but Daydream Nation probably is the one.

I think White Album is the best Beatles album. There's a couple of boring or lame songs (like Why Don't We Do It In The Road & Revolution 9) but mostly it is stunning!

Abbey Road is also great album like all albums from Revolver to Let It Be but White Album gets highest ranking in my head.

Yeah, same here. After White Album, I'd go with either Revolver or Abbey Road, followed by Sgt. Peper's. But the White Album represented everything that was great about the Beatles.

Helter Skelter
Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for me and my Monkey
I'm So Tired
The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill (like a lost Sgt. Pepper track that one... Another top 10 Severian favorite)
Back in the USSR
Revolution
Glass Onion
Sexy Sadie
Dear Prudence

I mean, what the fuck? What gave them the right to be so goddamn good? That album managed to perfect guitar rock and completely dismantle it simultaneously. I think of it as a bit of a proto-punk record deep down. It will never NOT be one of my favorite albums ever made. That's a fucking promise.

I think Evol was still a bit out there for most audiences. It's a goddamn revelation, of course, and the first three tracks are on a par with the best of their work from before or after, but Evol, to me, was their last "no wave" album. It's disjointed. It falls apart. It's non-rockist. Less non-rockist than BMR, but still... I think it was something of a bridge between Bad Moon and Sister.

Then they were abducted by aliens or something, and they made Daydream Nation, which sounds like it was made by a group of Timelord punks who could see the curve of the universe and all things yet to come. (Yeah, I just compared Sonic Youth to Doctor Who. Deal with it. ;) )

I also think they really found themselves in EVOL. I mean then came those absolutely wonderful and sad melodic guitars that has only some signs in intro/brave men run. But yes, there are some elements from the first three albums in EVOL that are very little in Sister and not at all in DDN.

Evol. Sister. Daydream Nation. I'm not sure three more perfec albums have ever been released in succession by any artist. I'd throw Bad Moon Rising into that lot as well. I actually prefer it as an album to Evol. Sometimes BMR is pretty much my favorite SY album.

It's easy to kinda toss Goo under the bus, and say it belongs to another era entirely and shows the band stepping out of the underground and into less intellectual territory. But I love Goo (except for "My Friend Goo"... man I fucking hate that song, it's just a pimple on the album) and I consider it to be a great follow up to Daydream. If you just listen to the music of both albums, and don't let the art and photo ops and difference in aesthetic get in the way, it really makes sense. And it kicks fucking ass too. Some of their best tracks are on Goo... "Dirty Boots," "Tunic," "Disappearer," "Titanium Exposé"... fuck man. If not for "My Friend Goo," I'd say it was their fifth perfect album in a row.

I could (and will, if I don't watch myself) talk about this shit all day and all night and never get a goddamn thing done. I could ruminate about Sonic Youth's albums ad infinutum. So pardon my rambling.

Now I have an insane urge to listen to, like, every Sonic Youth album we've mentioned. All at once. And pontificate endlessly about all of them. So I should shut up and go do real life stuff before that urge takes over.

all this Beatles talk just reminds me of how great Dylan is. he released "Subterranean Home Sick Blues" before "I can't get no Satisfaction" as a single. crazy! The Beatles hadn't yet released Help and almost a year before Rubber Soul.

not only did he changed things but he became the most historic nerd troll ever after Another Side of Bob Dylan. the dude 'played' his audience like no one before to end up on something grand and beyond the beat beautiful and settling on Blonde on Blonde.

Highway 61 is one of the biggest, nicest FU album in history. the absurdity of it all and the comedy.

"Desolation Row" is one of the most absurdly funny hallucinogenic retardedly beautiful songs ever. ironically he wrote some of the best 'wrong' love songs ever in this era.

pretentious dull poet looking for credit or smart ass stupid lyricist trolling big time? that's Dylan.

a thousand leaves NYC murray street sonic nurse is what i believe Sonic Yoith's best sequence of releases, their best "run"

Nooo, to me BMR is not even close EVOL. BMR is of course great album like all the SY albums, but when bought it same time as EVOL, EVOL was the one I listened again and again, always listened BMR much less. I know BMR is important album to many SY fans, but to me it hasn´t ever been, I prefer even CIS and first more than BMR.

I think GOO is better than DDN, it´s less straightforward and a little bit back to the Sister stuff (Dirty is even more). Because talk of the almost every SY album, I think I will rate them again (I know there will be lots of disagreement about my list):
1. Sister
2. EVOL
3. ATL
4. Washing Machine
5. Made In Usa
6. Demonlover
7. Dirty
8. GOO
9. Murray Street
10. Nurse
11. Rather Ripped
12. DDN
13. Eternal
14. Nyc Ghosts & Flowers
15. Sonic Death
16. CIS
17. First
18. BMR
19. Experimental

Not put any SYRs into this even SYR9 is also soundtrack.

Have to disagree again. Not going to say anything against the importance of Dylan to Beatles & the Stones and almost all rock music after Dylan and even Bringing it All Back Home, Highway 61 revisited, Blonde On Blonde, John Wesley Harding & Basement Tapes are huge albums (listen them a lot recently) I don´t think Dylan musically ever rose into level of Beatles & Stones.

goo above daydream nation?? and i thought MY SY opinions were controversial!

here is my non SYR ranking

1. sonic nurse
2. a thousand leaves
3. daydream nation
4. sister
5. the eternal
6. dirty
7. washing machine
8. rather ripped
9. EVOL
10. nyc ghosts and flowers
11. sonic death
12. made in usa
13. bad moon rising
14. murray street
15. goo
16. confusion is sex
17. experimental jet set trash no star (and everytime i listen to this record i feel like i am dissing it putting it unanimously at the bottom of the list, i mean there are some really good songs on it BUT everytime i make this list it always finds its way here at the bottom)

My opinion has always been GOO is better than DDN. Goo was my first SY-album, listened quite soon also DDN and thought then it had nothing to add to GOO although of course it was great too. In GOO I think only Kool Thing is a little bit boring song. Both albums have one song in my top10, Candle & Disappearer.

No hardness to understand why you prefer Nurse so much, but when you like Nurse so much, why Murray is so low? I think those two have lots in common, the reason why Murray is above Nurse in my list is I just love so much Karen revisited and there are not such a trip in Nurse (well Nurse has I love You Golden Blue that´s in my top10 sonic songs).

I feel also bad to put Experimental in the end of the list, because it´s just so much greater than many other albums, but in my sonicology it´s just the lowest.

Where You Been and Hand It Over are both great albums, but they have a different feel than Dino with Lou for sure. That mid period Dino is certainly more miss than hit though. I think you're selling the new stuff a little short too. I caught them live last year and it was a great show.

With your attitude about the early Beatles stuff all I can say is that you're missing out. That's all great stuff, and although fifty years later it doesn't seem like they were pushing the envelope during that era, they actually were considering the state of music at the time. I'm always surprised that people try to write off the early Beatles stuff or be too "cool" to appreciate it. Without those early Beatles records almost all the music after would be vastly different.

Sy certainly had some turmoil during the first three or four geffen records, and while Dirty is amongst my favorites, Goo and Jet Set are amongst the least favorites.

Sorry, I must have given the wrong impression.
I DO like the newer Dino stuff. Especially Beyond. And Farm has one of my all time favorite Seb- uh, Dino songs ("Your Weather.") I've also caught some Dino shows post-reunion. The first was shortly after Beyond came out (or shortly before... honestly can't recall) but it was EXCELLENT, and they remain an incredible live act.

Re: the Beatles
I didn't mean to suggest that I don't love early Beatles. I do. I went nuts over the BBC sessions 2 a few years ago. I love Anthology 1 and the first BBC sessions. All I meant was that compared to Abbey Road, the White Album, Revolver, etc., their early material wasn't exactly mind blowing. It was still great music, carefully composed and beautiful, and their personalities and general group dynamic in those early years was really something. There is no Beatles era or music that I dislike, except for a song or two here and there.
No, please don't get me wrong. I fucking love the Beatles to the point of near-obsession. I've read more books on them (as a band and as individuals) than any other artist. My love for them and my curiosity about/interest in them is without limit. They probably wouldn't make it into a current list of my top 5 artists, but from an all-time perspective, they're right up there with Sonic Youh and the Velvet Underground.
I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I guess I take it as a matter of public record that I'm a Beatles devotee, and that anyone reading my playfully disparaging comments about their pre-Rubber Soul days would take it with a grain of salt. Sorry. To be crystal clear: I fucking love the Beatles like woah.

WOW man. You like Made in USA and Demonlover more than Daydream Nation?! AND Murray Street, Nurse, Bad Moon Rising??! I would never even think to put those two releases on a "favorite Sonic Youth albums" list. I don't think of them as "albums" at all.

Wow. Just.. wow. That is the strangest Sonic Youth list I've ever seen, my friend. No offense. I'm not trying to be a jerk at al, I'm just... well, I'm kind of speechless.

With SFAD's list, at least I can understand it. I myself have gone through lengthy periods of preferring ATL-Sonic Jurse to everything else in the Sonic Youth discography. So, SFAD, I feel you.

But Mortte... wow. You and I are on entirely different wavelengths. Nothing wrong with that though. There would be no point in talking about this stuff if we didn't have different perspectives to share :)

My own "favorite SY albums" list is always in flux. I don't include any of the SYR's, soundtracks, sessions releases, live albums or EP's (except for CIS/KIY and self-titled because they've more or less been retroactively deemed the band's "first albums" as far as most of the world is concerned. I think of Bad Moon Rising as their first proper long-player, but not including Confusion is Sex would be rubbish.

I'll give it a shot, but remember, this is always subject to change without warning or reason. ;)

1. Sister
2. Daydream Nation
3. Murray Street
4. A Thousand Leaves
5. Bad Moon Rising
6. Sonic Nurse
7. Evol
8. Goo
9. Washing Machine
10. Rather Ripped
11. Dirty
12. Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star
13. NYC Ghosts & Flowers
14. Confusion is Sex/Kill Yr Idols
15. Sonic Youth
16. The Eternal

* Note: In my opinion there isn't a bad album in the bunch. In fact, I think most of these records are perfect. The few that aren't, like those last few entries, are still downright great albums, with the possible exception of The Eternal, which is "very good" with a number of great moments, and even some perfect ones. I just want to make it clear that I think everything on this list puts most guitar-based music to shame. It's simply an expression of which of these beloved records I love most at this current point in time. :)

Agree. I had a period when I thought true Beatles music started in Rubber Soul. Then in the nineties came those mono rereleases from early albums, so I bought Please Please Me & Beatles For Sale and really started to respect their early stuff too, but still I am thinking the later is just better. From those early albums I think With the Beatles & Help! are the best entities, although there are very many really huge songs in Hard Days Night too. And great songs in the rest too. I think to me Beatles will never be even in the top20 artist list, but still always will be really important band.

Well, maybe you don´t need any explanations, but I will try still. First that I think you already know, it´s honest list, I don´t have any need to be "different SY-fan". I know to many fans BMR & DDN are milestones without any questions, to me they just never been (well I think they would, if they haven´t made such a milestones to me like Sister, EVOL, ATL & Washing Machine). I have really loved Made In Usa & Demonlover immediately when heard them first time. To me they worked as an album. I could have put there SYR1,2,3,6,7&9 because I think they´re too as great as their albums, but decided then leave them away. I know many people thinks about SYRS and Made In Usa that they´re not albums, I mean the band probably didn´t record them thinking making an album. To me it hasn´t ever mean nothing, is some album "a thought entity" or just recorded with spontanity, if it´s great then it´s great.

When thinking my list, you easily notice the albums that has those great melodic guitars are high. The other thing that means a lot in SY music to me, is how much they give me visions. Made In Usa, Demonlover and those great SYRS give me a lot. Well every Sonic music give me visions, but those that are high on the list give me most. And really DDN & BMR are just so fuckin amazing albums like experimental even I don´t rate them high.

1. Sister - 10/10
2. Daydream Nation - 10/10
3. Washing Machine - 9/10
4. Dirty - 9/10
5. Murray Street - 9/10
6. Evol - 9/10
7. Sonic Nurse - 8/10
8. Goo - 8/10
9. Confusion Is Sex + Kill Your Idols - 8/10
10. Bad Moon Rising - 7/10
11. Experimental Jet Set, Trash & No Star - 7/10
12. The Eternal - 7/10
13. Rather Ripped - 7/10
14. Sonic Youth - 6/10
15. A Thousand Leaves - 6/10
16. New York City Ghosts & Flowers - 5/10

So many old names in this thread who used to post. The memories! I'm depressed just scrolling through. like just fucking kille me

I dig it man. I get where you're coming from. You're right that all the albums you listed are great. I really adore some of the SYRs too. Especially 1, 2, 5 and 9. Some of the band's best moments are on those releases.

I also love Demonlover.

i did the same thing

^^ fuck off you crybaby!

Well, I also think sometimes my old friends from that I have heard nothing for long time. But I think there is reason why I haven´t heard them and I am completely satisfied about my social life this moment.

Really hope that shit "this place is dead" doesn´t start again, I think here has been quite ok feeling at the moment from a long time.

Mortte you should listen to Travis Scott, Young Thug and Futher. goddamn sickist shit. can't tell you. sippin. blue, maybe purple. pot of porridge dinosuaris. fuck my oris. yr a tourist. lick bourist. how notorious. uh!

Well Mortte, the old seems to have been replaced with an obnoxious right-wing TMZ prickfest that fails to grasp the mind-blowing concept of opinion.

I'm glad you're feeling ok about it here at the moment. I like you. You have great taste in music.

Sorry about that one time, like a year ago or more, when I gave you the impression that I didn't like you. I still think about that. You're a good guy, and I hope I made it clear that I never meant you any disrespect. :)