JOE PESCI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ngZf...eature=related

Joe Pesci offending people does not offend me, and instead makes me lol.

Joe Pesci deals in drugs and bugs, and vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIoNkrQFTmE

There this def a serious problem with the fact that men are often alienated from feminist discourse.

I believe that it is at times important to have women's only spaces at certain times. Platforms where women can share their experiences together in a safe environment where they aren't feeling as censored. I've found that the problem with male feminists on prinicple is that they don't tend to really listen to women. They step in and try to define their experiences for them. It is important that these men figure their shit out before they go in trying to "save" women. Malcom X said something similiar about whites in the civil rights movement - white people need to work on thier own racism because we start to but in and tell african americans how to save themselves. I think that this is what you are saying about inner-discourse: challenging yr own assumptions, working on yrself etc.

But it doesn't end there. Men and women need to work together in the end, share their experiences with one another etc. Masculinity really fucks with men. Patriarchy's worst victims might often be women, but it still destroys men.

Blah blah, I'm pretty intoxicated right now so hopefully I did an okay job articulating all of that.

I'm a feminist because I am a humanist. :)

this is glaringly and unfortunately the truth
like i don't understand why most men are so uncomfortable with emotions and shit. emotions aren't male or female, they're human.
or like how if a little girl is a tomboy or whatever that's considered pretty ok and normal i guess, but god forbid if a little boy played dress up or played with dolls, shit like that. then i guess that automatically makes him a fag. welcome to america, some things will never change. the double standard facet of the whole male/female/gender roles/feminism/whatever thing is the thing that actually pisses me off and i can't understand it even on the most basic level.

Masculinity is as bad as femininity is. In that they both have their pros and cons. Masculinity is no more a cause of problems than femininity is. I personally like some aspects of masculinity.

I have no problem with emotions whatsoever. I don't wear them on my sleeve but I'm in touch with them and I can be honest about them with others.

Men are (often) raised/taught that their role in society, relationships, and families is as the protector and breadwinner. That men need to be strong not just for themselves, but for everyone else. There is a strong aspect of biology in it too... the weak member of the pack is left behind or sacrificed, the weak become victims, become dominated. Hence, crying exhibits a lapse in strength, a moment of weakness, an inability to deal with a situation as a 'man,' failing in ones role, and potentially opening oneself up as a target, allowing oneself to be victimized by those who see weakness in others as an opportunity for themselves.

Personally, I don't mind this. I think it's of course healthiest when balanced though. Taking it to the point of emotional retardation is one thing, but embracing the idea that you should be strong (not so much that you shouldn't cry, but moreso that you should be capable of handling anything emotionally) and portray strength isn't a bad thing.

I prefer strong and independent people over weak, needy people.

yes.

yes yes yes.

i fucking hate it when people cry like pussies over the stupidest little shit. men or women.

Strong and independent people can be just as insecure as the weak and needy. They just express it in belligerence and obstinacy.

^ belligerence and obstinacy is a lot less annoying than crying and bitching

But they often make whatever problem worse.

this is also true.

If someone is just as insecure as someone who is weak and needy, then by definition they are not strong. At best they are just pretending to be.

I was speaking of people who actually strive for strength versus stop at maintaining a mask of it.

Then admitting and accepting when one is in err is strong and not an admission of weakness?

it's not weak to be wrong. everyone is wrong sometimes. some more often than others.

Agreeing with this statement, it kinda just seems like the past couple posts (and any other very general and basic discussion on independence) merely discuss the faces of people, without accounting for the crazy shit you see when peoples lives get on the line, etc. And it also only discusses how people seem on a situational basis, like if they are brave or a pussy the moment you met them, then thats all they would be.

I know what I just said is entirely contradictory. I'm trying to deal with this shit at the moment. I honestly cant judge a person based on the condition they're in when I interact with them, but then how can I define a person? Honestly, I'm asking you.

In the sense of the survival of the fittest, being wrong at the wrong moment can be your death.

Of course not, it's the only way to grow and move forward. If you don't learn from your mistakes (or choose not to acknowledge them at all) you just flounder, and that is weak.

yeah that's why you're supposed to learn from your mistakes. (edit DAMNIT AMERIKANGOD)

how can you define a person? consistencies and patterns in their behavior but obviously it's subjective, two people could define the same person in completely different ways because everyone has their own perspective blah blah blah. you can't really define any one person but you can try. i don't mean to sound flippant but there's no point in even discussing it because the spectrum of what a person could be defined as or labelled is so broad.

What she said. Totally watch the last few episodes of 'Neon Genesis Evangelion' if you want this point driven home.

I think I'm being caught up in the difference between emotional strength and strength of ability. Pardon.

It's also possible that I might not be defining my terms as clearly as I could be. I had a ton of whiskey earlier and now I'm drinking beer.

It's kind of stupid on my part, though, because I've argued the same position as yours elsewhere on the internet in the past. Mostly in regard the fact that songs don't make me cry. I wonder why this isn't intuitive to me now. Perhaps the humbling unemployment that I am in now. That kind of shit fucks with your head after a while.

I need to reread me some Aristotle/Nietzsche, stat.

Maybe it would be useful to give up on those old ideas?

Being old doesn't make them wrong.

Not at all, not at all.

What would happen if you didnt reread some aristotle/nietzsche at this point, what would you resort to?

Are you insinuating that my desire to reread those philosophers is rooted in a dependency on their thought?

While I can understand someone assuming that, this is not why I would read them at this time. More often than not, I reread particular philosophies (that I am already familiar with) in order to return myself to the questions rather than the answers.

i absolutely cant stand when people are rude, and only care about themselves and no one else exists to them. bothers the shit outta me.

Thanks much Glice...

Agree whole heartedly one the homeless. Many have issues of mental health of pyhsical handicaps that used live in state run hospital and then suddenly the government just threw them out in streets. Not all of them drunken drug addicts who brought it on themselves and even that is being classified as a diesease these days.

Exactly!

I am radical as it gets, and I have no problem with radical feminists. I use the term feminazis not to refer to any active or radical feminist, but rather those one-issue based radical feminists who do not actually represent the interests or needs of women. Further, I think feminazis are racists in the sense that they only focus on woman's issues in the Western world, and in fact many of their ideas are not compatible with the needs of women in the developing world.

Specifically, I am referring to middle-class feminazis who bark and bark about abortion with blouted statistics, fallacy arguments and even fear tactics! Women need equality in the work place, increase in pay and benefits, remove the glass ceiling, better representation in the big business and political world, proper health care, good education for our (but in the US with single mothers primarily their) children, family issues etc etc. Last time i checked, abortion was already secured in america, its beating a dead dog. Woman GOT abortion, now shouldn't feminists (and those who are not feminazis are smart enough to know this ;) ) focus on the things woman do not have and still need?

In cali last elections there were some abortion issues, Prop 4, which required adult notification (not a parent, just an adult) for an underage abortion (this is a SAFETY PRECAUTION). This required a potentially naive, intimidated or just nervous young girl who stumbles into a clinic to get an abortion to get counsel from a more responsible adult first. Any chemical/surgical dilation of the cervix is by definition a DANGEROUS and RISKY procedure for women's health. I work with highschool kids, NEVER FORGET that these are CHILDREN, and they make POOR and IRRESPONSIBLE decisions. When it comes to their safety and health, they NEED some HELP from adults, after all this is OUR responsibility as adults, to properly care for ALL the needs of our children. I may not have a vagina as glice was talking about, but I still understand health. Dilating the cervix, even under the sterile conditions of the OR, increases the risk of harmful infections, the development of growths and polyps, and worst of all cancer! Further, MANY women complain of terrifying psychological trauma after an abortion. Essentially, I say that abortion is here to stay, but lets restrict it for safety to have a waiting period for everyone and adult consent for minors. This is a public health issue, not a civil rights issue.

Feminazis are overly politicized over single-issues, and they NEGLECT important issues both in the Western countries and the world in general! There are still MANY more things which RADICAL feminists NEED to do for the women of the world. Abortion is at the bottom of the chain.. and on a personal level, what a fucking crummy and low-life issue to make your cause.. I-man and I-sistren prefer to deal with positive, with life, with health, with development..

I hate feminists, especially the male one.

I agree with what you wrote here about the dif between feminists and feminazis. Like you said, feminazis are closed minded and don't critically engage w/ the issues at hand.

However, it is also important to remember that abortion is not necessarily secured. It's legality is constantly at risk and it's important that people continue to advocate for it. I personally believe that abortion needs to be legal in all cases just in case. I don't think that it should necessarily be advocated but it is essential that it remains at option. What happens if a young girl is raped by her father and needs to get an abortion? Asking for parental consent might result in some extreme abuse. Unfortunately, cases like those are far too common.

I like how some people think that some girls should keep their fetus till it's born then give it for adoption in cases of rape.

As I said, the law was not parental consent, it was adult consent. it literally could have been someone off the street, but it had to be an adult, and an adult has a bit more sense in their head then a young girl, and if by your scenario, one who just endured a traumatic experience and is most definitely not in her 'right mind'

abortion is not threatened, its too hot an issue. it will be here to stay I assure you. when I say restrict, I am saying adult (not necessarily parental) consent for minors and a 48 waiting period for adults. ALL abortions are a SERIOUS surgical procedure and people should sleep on it.

but I this is not an abortion thread, I just happen to feel strongly about the issue. I do not feel it should be a right, but since people have made it one I am not for being the one to say take it away, however for public health there should be certain restrictions. For example you have the right to bear arms, but not necessarily under any and every circumstance, just like you have the right to free speech, but not to incite threats or slander, seen? Just because you have a fundamentally insured right, does not make it a completely unlimited right, and just because there are restrictions on a right for public health and safety (like gun control for example) does not invalidate or threaten the right in general.

it is appalling that anyone actually thinks that a woman should not have a right to choose to have an abortion if she gets pregnant and doesn't want the kid or can't take care of it. just like how the government thinks they can tell people what they can and can't put in their bodies. worry about your fucking self.

Awesome!
I get stupid when I'm drunk. I think I thought I was actually making conversation.
Since you're the philosophy buff, I should ask you out of curiosity: is there anybody interesting out there right now that discusses current life, post-Nietzsche?

oh and this has nothing to do with gender but i wonder if men were the ones having babies (that pregnant dude doesn't count, that was a chick) if it would be the same way? because a lot of people's mentality is that women were made to have babies so "killing your baby" is some kind of cardinal sin, you are rejecting god's plan for you as a woman or whatever.
personally i don't believe in god but i used to and i didn't feel any differently about the issue back then. babies don't come from god, babies come from FUCKING which is your own damn fault and fortunately there are steps you can take to correct the mistake you made when you went without your raincoat and got knocked up. that's life, kids.