That's because the reality of what he's saying is depressing.

no it won't.

do you even know what the cuts are? an estimated 1 in 10 public sector workers loosing their jobs is not going to look good to people.

is that much different to what happened to the miners in that 80s?

infact it will probably be much less dramatic as the livelihood of whole communities won't be at risk, and the tories will sell a bloated public sector an expensive and unneccessary remnant of an unpopular labour government

The dramatic cuts to the public sector have been happening for some time now.

i know there have been a lot of cuts because of the olympics

yes, when there are estimates of up to 30% cuts to public sector spending it's going to be a lot different.

i dont think you guys want anything to change.

i wrote a long reply to demonrail and tb but as a typed my furious bile it got me onto a different subject and i started thinking instead.

so eventually i will have a blog post up dealing with liberal individualism and its relation to the production of worldviews that overestimate the conservatism of the masses which will be a more useful thing to think about and you can even read it if you want.

Seeing how that plays out will be really interesting. It's going to be hard for a government set on such a dramatic programme of cuts to justify the millions that'll be spent putting on an olympic opening ceremony.

I will read it and, believe it or not, I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying here, at least in principle. I just don't see how it corellates with the way average voters appear to be acting or have acted, at least in my lifetime. I may be completely wrong here, but from what I can see, if the masses aren't all that convinced by for the tories, they're even less convinced by the kind politics that you seem to be endorsing.

I'm aware of the arguments given as to why this is the case but the evidence seems to suggest that it is the case, and until the average voter is able to genuinely relate to the kind of politics you're talking about, it's likely to stay that way.

if i develop it right i could make the link with how people are likely to vote but there are still some flaws to the argument.

i think the masses are definitely more prone to the "let's burn this shit down argument" than "let's try to pretend their are merits to tory policy". far more.

i think everyone massively underestimates the anger there is. there is a tremendous effort in the media to trap our thinking in a reality wherein there can only be subjective individual truth which is apparently so strong and important as to override material conditions. bullshit of course.

i'm very optimistic because there is a material truth to how people are being exploited under capitalism and no amount of suppression will ever take that away. you unlock that and you show it to people and they aren't going to go back to their previous ways of thinking or behaving.

you can be sold a false sense of optimism which will burn you out, or you can get hyper excited about the prescription nihilism that is the dominant expression of culture now. either way there's no escaping the truth that we are coming to the end of capitalism.

man i love life now, i love the oppurtunities to think about this and develop theories and read and imagine a future and i love how we are being driven to a point were the creation of a new social movement is the only way to actually survive. pessismistic i am not. making dire forecasts about how people will behave under a tory government is not what i see as useful. i only see this forecast as the excuse people use to vote tory and remain inactive and resigned to their reality.

when people stop focusing on developing an individual liberalism in the space of a false interiority that is not there but only an illusion of our forced isolation as consumers then they will stop overestimating the conservatism of the masses. because the actions of the masses only appear as a conservative average because its a space wherein my individualism is impotent and absent. so i mistake it as "everyone must be so conservative deep down except me and my beautiful soul" when it's really - everyone is acting so conservative because they are only concerned with preserving their cherished individualism and beautiful liberal soul. this soul is fed on a load of narcissism about what my self would potentially do in situations it will never have any power in. you get arm chair generals and noone doing anything in the community.

and in a way this is useful because you're individualism acts as a tool to navigate commodity society and select relevant information and open up new ways of thinking to you. so it is in some sense very useful. but its a by product of a time, the 90's, when it really did seem like we would have capitalism forever and there could be no alternative. that time is long gone but none of us can really let go of it.

people are not conservative because conservatism is wrong and its a lie. it doesn't work. its an error in thinking and a mistaken worldview. it arising from fear and guilt and results in some of our worst interpretations of the world. the masses aren't right wing because it is not in their interests to be so! it's not in their interests to stick with capitalism, to fight its wars and waste their lives being exploited as labour to keep things going smoothly for the ruling elite.

the price for sticking with it now, seems to be the entitlement/sentence that you manage your own suicide. that's all it really offers us now, that and a now unproductive and dying reality system that's of little use to us.

there isn't really much of an anti capitalism that can feed/clothe/allow you to survive better yet, but there will be. there will have to be. we get to start planning for it. what a beautiful oppurtunity!

my ideals are probably about as leftwing as yours, but unlike you i realise that puts me in a tiny minority. plus there's no point getting excited about something that isn't going to happen.

you're not in the minority. the majority think the same thing if they think about it at all.

and hey, we're gonna make it happen.

i'll believe it when i see it

that's why you'll never see it.

anyway i could waste time better some other way. hope you enjoy your misery!

I think your delusion is a symptom of spending a lot of time talking with like-minded people.

And while there is obviously nothing wrong with that, in the meantime the real world rumbles on without you.

I sort of agree, but also disagree, a bit

I'm flattered that the revolution you're planning hinges upon my belief in it

I didn't vote conservative. Do you love me?

Bollocks.

Uncharacteristically vague. Are you alright?

This is worth a listen if you haven't already: :eek:.

ok well enjoy your real world were capitalism isn't on the brink of collapsing and never will. i guess i'll kick back in this spectral netherverse i must be in and go do something else.

on an unrelated note, i have suddenly remembered why i came back here, it was to get sucked down into energy sapping "discussions" with smug cynical arseholes only interested in carving out their own solpsistic niche of ignorance wherein they rule supreme and can decide when to switch to simple name calling or try to show off how much they know but always simply to make sure in the end they leave having affirmed they are the king of message board and lord of their own ignorance. unfortunately i can't handle anymore of this exquisite pleasure for today.