yup. the fellow in yr avatar. one of the preachiest rappers around

I had two cats, they were brother and sister.
They used to fuck and had babies.
I wonder if Suchfriends thinks that's ok for humans to do.
Anyway, he was very friendly and always scared.
She was the only one who'd ever bring home a dead bird or torture a lizard for hours before finally killing it.

I don't drink.

gender roles are societal. gender itself is not. It exists. there are innate differences between males and females of any species that has sexual differentiation. (I cannot speak for asexual organisms), and these are both physical, mental, emotional, and metaphysical.

what do you imagine in your mind's eye when I say "beautiful woman?" It is not what I imagine in my mind's eye.

the reason the bible gives for the creation of woman is to prevent adam from fucking the animals. dang

I still don't think you're getting it or you're just playing dumb.
If you're not going to watch the video and still going to come here and sound like a 12 year old I ask you, from the bottom of my heart, to just fucking stop trying. You don't need to continue pretending that you give a shit.

well, that didn't fucking work, did it?
and fuck knows what you meant with this.
i'm scared to even think about it.

you know we all do this when you aren't looking? i think you should try it out you'll probably like it.

again, you presume too much.

I work, commute 1 1/2 hours each way to work, and then have gone home to take care of my currently sick wife. I go to sleep at 9:30 to be awake at 5 to get ready for work. excuse me for not watching the video yet. I told you I will, and I will let you know when I have.

I meant that ancient man sure had a hell of an imagination!

That's fine.
But if you haven't done it you have nothing to add to this conversation, do you? It can't go anywhere.
Yet you have the time and interest to come here to demonstrate how you pick and choose your 'truths'.

I didn't find the story that entertaining.

who doesn't pick and choose their "truths?' Truth is an idea. It is designated by a consensus. It changes over time. women in the western world havea very different truth to women from 200 years ago, and a very different truth from women in highly repressive societies like India, or China. truth is malleable.

Let's work on facts.

Sadly, I'll have to admit to not having a moment to watch the video either. I will do so, this evening, while rubbing my wife's feet.

But you don't even have to.

Care to describe your interpretation of the word "fact"? It should be amusing.

Watched the video knox. Paid attentione and thought deeply about the ideas expounded within. I share most of her viewpoints and already actively live my life as best I can along the principles the speaker describes. There is a difference however, between sexual objectification and sexual attraction. One can control the former but one cannot control the latter. I personally find Indian features beautiful and intelligence even more so. This is why I do not feel my original post about the many studious and beautiful Indian and Pakistani women at the Library to be objectification. I still do not. Sexual attraction happens whether objectification exists or not and is as big a part of being human as anything else.
You are free to find my words offensive but to expect me not to defend myself is a bit much, no?
Like I said before, fight the good fight. Confronting me about my post is a waste of your energy. I am actually your compatriot in this fight. And so is sychfriends as well.

i think everybody could understand men better if they watched the schoolroom scene in the wicker man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pa8aP6WwI8

Imagine being arbitrarily designated as an inescapably objectified category; imagine that even your intelligence can't escape that objectification. "Hey, I don't just treat bitches as meat for their asses - I do it for their minds too".

Tenfold this.

Ok, generally ugly thread, knox is right and this is pretty much why a lot of good posters fled. Even the people with worrying levels of internet masochism (myself).

I've been dwelling on this idea lately that one of the perpetual problems is this idea that 'the problem' exists in 'someone else'. It's like the 'racism is white skinheads kicking people's heads in'. That's a part of it, but only ever part. Many sorts of people - mostly people that aren't identified the same way as me - face constant harassment, psychological abuse and general dehumanisation. Not everyone chooses to identify with that - some of them because it's easier to live without constant self-assertions of negativity, some because they genuinely don't feel it, some because they've thickened their skin - but the most of them falling under the constant, discrete and unchallenged yoke of repetition. If you do not identify with the people saying they're having a shit time, shut the fuck up rather than telling them they're wrong.

It's the internet, and most folk are likely to ignore this. Sadly, the score with this forum is that I talk to the people who were listening elsewhere (or they disappeared), and the rest of you are fucking animals. I'm lucky, in that I'm one of the privileged ones - white and cis-male. I'm from a country with masses of problems, but I recognise it could be worse. The extent of that 'worse' is largely foreclosed to me, partly by things like the media, partly from personal and discrete deliberate ignorance(s) I may be unaware of. But... generally speaking, a lot of the shit being talked here is not helpful, and while you think you're not part of the problem you are. I am too. I'm struggling with it, rather than patronising the one person here who can be fucked to continue tussling with you moronic twats.

Knox is fucking awesome.

I actually have a problem with the video. I'm outright annoyed with the collectivist approach. Who's to say what's empowering to others? And how's anyone confortable with the idea that someone should avoid their sexual qualities for the sake of taking a bullet for the team?

You have no idea how patronizing this sounds.

Are you uncomfortable with data too?
And I give this question back to you: who are you to say what's empowering to women?
I don't think you've experienced what's like to 'be in a woman' among those images/messages.

I feel like I'm hitting a wall.
You don't seem to be able to understand that objetification is not sexuality.
An object is NOT human, it's not a life.
That they're almost opposite things, really.
It's actually pretty scary to see how common that misconception is.

Since you people only listen to men, do yourselves a favor please:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td1PbsV6B80

It's really nice when a dog is not only cute but it can do tricks too, isn't it?

oooh imagine an exotic breed, what a thrill.

haha 'collectivist approach'

do you read alot of ayn rand books bro? lol

Noone, to women or others, that's why I don't try to, like apparently you do.
Actually I think it's quite the contrary. It seems that you don't want to accept the fact that objectification IS part of sexuality, and that the fact that people do strip away others from humanity for the sake of pleasure and play doesn't necessarily equates with sexism.

Yes, as in opposed to an individualist approach. As it should be in regards to sexuality. Or are you opposed to individual freedom and individual choice bro?

Fuck off.

Hold on.

Talking about messages in the media is supressing individual approach and choice? Big loophole there.

I don't have any choice regarding being subjected to these notions, images or judged in accordance to them.

Did you seriously say that?
Isn't stripping others from humanity THE VERY CORE of opression?
Or is it not pleasureable to have sex with humans?

Next thing you'll say social sciences are working against personal freedom.
This is a whole new level of surreal.

it's like saying work cannot exist without slavery.
let's think about that

ah...but I wanted to (and now have).

I find it interesting her points made about hyper-sexualization in advertising and wonder how many men realize that they are being preyed upon (in commercial sense) by corporations banking on their penis over-riding their central cortex. of course, this is only a minor manifestation of an even greater problem, but part of the problem nonetheless (much like how the hyper-violence in today's videogames has a trickle-down effect on those who are prone to suggestion). these ads will not turn everyone (or maybe even most) into a rapist (or mass-murderer) but their insideous properties surely have a negative impact on the general psyche of all.

that said, I very rarely watch tv.

I think I made clear in my initial post as to what I was referring to.

After the video just to clear up; are we not allowed to find certain races visually attractive? Or was it to not judge people based on looks?

Go to the SM/Leather/Fetish community for example and tell them it's surreal.

I actually have no idea what you're saying saying but it seems that you don't have any idea what you're saying so it's a bizarre cycle.

Am I trying to tell anyone to stop with their fetishes?
No, go ahead, nobody's stopping you.
I'm saying it's be very cool for people to stop publicly making people feeling objectified when they didn't CONSENT to it.
The word is CONSENT CONSENT CONSENT.
You should know that if you're reading those communities, it's their golden rule.

You should probably try to keep it to yourself when you're not sure how people might feel about your comments or if they welcome that sort of thing instead of doing it to get high fives.

It's probably not ok to be in your office, for example, talking out loud about someone's ass when women are around.

I.e.: it's possible to find someone attractive without shouting at them as they walk down the street.

It's this whole thing about men having to do it constantly and publicly to each other to obtain reassurance about their masculinity that makes women feel shit.

I don't think it's too hard to understand...

also, in relation to your post that I've quoted above, I sincerely appreciate your trust in me, but I am far from a perfect person.

despite my imperfectness, I strive for betterment and believe that I will never truly find myself above criticism or insightful self-assement so as to be not only more of a better spouse, friend, or father, but as a better human being, and man.

Did you just backtrack on your comment? Because a moment ago you were pointing out how surreal it is.