Why didn't Lee sing any songs on Experimental Jet Set?
 

The songs where Lee takes on lead vocals are my favorite SY songs, so I was bummed when I found out Lee doesn't sing on EJSTNS.

Otherwise it's a decent sequel to Dirty. My favorite song on it is "Screaming Skull".

Lee was upset that Genetic was cut from Dirty and neglected to a b-side, so he decided not to contribute anything to Jet Set as a result.

It's my least favorite SY album, and no Lee songs definitely hurt it more.

Didn't he come close to quitting the band around that period?

Yeah, I even recall a quote somewhere that said he was pissed it was left off in favor of more Kim songs, actually.

The fact he doesn't have any songs on the album may have had an impact on the relationship between the band members at the time, but I am a fan, not a member of Sonic Youth, and the record sounds great to me without his songs. His playing is also great on it, so what's the big deal?

well put and agreed.

Because duh, he already knew that record sucked

Yeah, sounds about right. He made the best songs on Washing Machine and A Thousand Leaves afterwards. :)

One of the most underrated Sonic Youth records in my opinion, it has its own suburban pseudo grunge art rock feel and I also had a quasi religious experience listening to it whilst being high for the first time as a teen.

cuz that record sucks and lee has great taste

Funny you should say that (well, not the stoner part, but bear with me ;)) - Matthew Simms, the "kid" who's been a member of Wire since 2010 mentioned it as an important formative influence. From Read & Burn: A Book About Wire (highly recommended, by the way):

Still think Experimental is the worst SY album, but that doesn´t mean it´s bad album. I was just very disappointed it when it came. I thought then SY is over to me, but I got it back when Washing Machine came. But this whole thing has nothing to do with Lee, Lee is not singing in CIS or BMR and I have always think they´re better than Experimental.

The sound on EJSTNS is better than Dirty's.

Ironically this record produced the closest thing to a hit single sonic youth ever had...

Ironically it's my least favourite song on this strange and magical record

i just listened to the record again, and well i think 'get over it already'.
i mean, of course i relate to the meh-ness that it caused when it was first released and the disconnection that most of us felt, might even still have it in the back of my mind when i think of it, but frankly its a fine album and have reached to that conclusion only some time after the release.

yeah

^yeah

captures a certain aesthetic that goo and dirty failed to hit. dirty hinted at it, but goo was agonisingly dry. like an alternate vision of pop.

"When I was really young, and started playing the guitar, the first record I really got into was Sonic Youth's Experimental Jet Set, Trash And No Star, which my dad gave me when I was about 12. It was a big influence — showing that the guitar could be something more, that you could get all sorts of sounds out of it. That's the side of the guitar I really like."

Thanks for posting this. This is exactly my relationship to the record as well. A young 15-16 year old punk kid just learning to play guitar, and this record absolutely shifted everything about the way I viewed music and shaped my future development.

Like many my age at the time, I basically got into them because of Nirvana. I saw the video for "Bull," and had just read Nirvana's bio. Hearing Cobain mention them several times, and seeing Steve drumming with that maraca, I decided to pick up the album. I could not believe some of the things I heard. "What is all this feedback and amp noise doing on a record? Oh wait...crap...they are using it rhythmically as a song element?" Mind...blown... "Songs are supposed to have 'notes' and structure, right? What is this 'Androgynous Mind' doing then, and why do I love it so much?!?! Was that a random pick scratch?" Hearing the intro to "Starfield Road" for the first time as a young teen, and the feelings of sheer excitement and wonder it gave me, that is something I will remember until the day I die.

I totally understand where a lot of people are coming from with the hatred though. Being a bit older and already a fan, I could see where this album was possibly a bit of a let-down. Or even just discovering it later and comparing it to their full catalog. I just felt a need to respond and give it some love though, because it certainly holds a very special place in my heart.

I think it's terribly underrated.
I don't mean it's one of their best, but it's better than most people are willing to give it credit for.

It may sound simplistic compared to other SY LPs, but there are LOTS of fine ideas and experimentation (duh!) with rhythm and "noises".

Steve's drumming on "Bone" is amazing.

"Skink's" mid-section and overall "mood" is something loop-worth.

I think most people dismiss it because its tracks can sound repetitive. I like repetition. Rhythmic riffs, noises, drum hits.
There's lot of it in this record.

I call this record "Nap Time at the Old Folks Home"

I have somewhat mixed feelings about EJSTNS. I think that overall the album is weird because it's such a mix of their best (Bull In The Heather, Starfield Road, Doctor's Orders, Sweet Shine) and worst songs (I do not feel the need to list them). I can't say if Lee had contributed a song to the album that it would have made it better or worse as a whole. I think that Dirty is a masterpiece and very tight in terms of production (and I do not mean that in a bad way), as records that Butch Vig produces typically are. He did EJSTNS too and despite that the band was still working with Butch, the production was much looser, which is the album's strength in some songs and weakness in others.

I think a bit of context is necessary here. At the turn of the decade and the early '90s the band had embraced the vibe of Mudhoney and Nirvana and filtered it through its own glorious idiosincrasy, which of course produced Dirty, but the so-called "new mainstream" unwittingly unleashed by Nevermind's success was, what, at best 5% interesting and 95% execrable and excretable. Sonic Youth reacted to this cesspool's expansion by aiming for a kind of against the grain "art rock":


So, crunchy fuzzy straightforward stuff, out. Beginning the album with an all-acoustic song (!), in. Memorable conventional hooks, out — for the most part. Fractured non-verse-chorus-verse structures, in — for the most part. And, if I'm not mistaken, a policy of "first take best take" was adopted for at least a portion of the recordings. Does it ALL succeed? No, but this is what I'm getting at: Experimental Jet Set, Trash And No Star is the ultimate transitional Sonic Youth album, the critical first step (followed by less tentative, but in my opinion not fully realized either, moves with Washing Machine and the SYR EPs) in order to eventually reach superlative quality status again with A Thousand Leaves and the LPs from the Jim O'Rourke years, before taking another couple of brilliant (but not as dramatic) detours with Rather Ripped and The Eternal. All in all, a most certainly rewarding journey to follow, and despite a few subpar songs here and there, a journey from which I wouldn't remove a single release.

That's true.. ejstns > goo

You explained in few words why hardly anyone feels like chatting about SY on the forum and stick to limited editions and the torrents. Congratulations.

Are more words even necessary? And actually the Sonic Youth section is the only place where all kinds of new and different people post. Its the Ship Of Lost Souls aka the Honeybunch aka Non-Sonics where fresh blood is afraid to sacrifice themselves on the altars of our banality

No way. Goo is awesome compared to the bore that is EJST&NS.

Dirty Boots?
Mary Christ?
Mote? MOTE??????
Disappearer?
Mildred Pierce?


Those tunes alone blow anything on EJST&NS out of the water. turn it up loud.

MOTE is GOD

I know its an unpopular opinion and while technically the songs on Goo are "better" I find myself rarely listening to them. Of course this may just be because I lost my copy of Goo... actuly shit.. cinderella's big score. Titanium expose, mote... yeah I suppose my statement was a bit excessive. So Ejstns is back to the bottom of the pile

Just to piss people off here are my rankings.. 1) Sonic Nurse 2) A Thousand Leaves 3) Washing Machine 4) Day Dreamnation 5)Dirty 6)The Eternal 7) sister 8) goo 9) sonic death 10)evol 11)rather ripped 12) nyc ghosts &flowers 13) murray street 14) bad moon rising 15)ejtns

I like you suchfriends....but how dare you date dirty so high? Even above EVOL. That fucking record is essential as fuck. Steve's first album with sy and he ducking kills it!!!! The songs are 10 times better and the sound actually has an aura unlike dirty which sounds cheesy(for sy at least.)

Rankings are personal and irrelevant.

i like ejstns. pity there is no Lee song + weird. probably genetic track aftermath?

Sorry evol, I just really like dirty, its always been one,of my all time favorite records

Dirty Boots and Mary Christ are the beginning of the Thurston wackness that lead to what we have now

title of next Thurston album: The Wackness

EJST&NS gets little play at my house these days, but Sweet Shine is extraordinary, maybe have to revisit soonish

This and everything you said following was perfectly put. I have always thought this, and you put my thoughts into words perfectly. Just thought I should let you know...

Hmm! well,
Washing Machine feels a lot about being between worlds or in multiple worlds , whether creatively, or how our minds and perceptual dimensions have many dimensions.

Saucer-Like must have had an extra element to surprise listeners who had been following for a while and wondering whether Lee would vocally lead a song on the new record. many songs do, but it really feels like a unique bridge between the two albums, and there are these feelings of returning from a long journey mentally and physically with new knowledge and perspectives!

Sometimes a simple ''it's awesome!'' will do.

"Androgynous Mind" is one of the best SY songs ever.

This, this, and more this.