Best No Wave Band?
 

Who do you all consider the best of this great, but short lived genre. Mars? DNA? James Chance and The Contortions? Theoretical Girls? Teenage Jesus and The Jerks? 8 eyed Spy? Bush Tetras?

I mean in terms of albums too, not just a few songs.Im interested to hear your opinions.

Mars are my personal faves, although I think that Teenage Jesus and DNA were probably more important. I think Mars' 78 LP is the most consistent of all the No Wave albums. And 'Helen Forsdale' maybe its greatest song.

Either the Contortions or Bush Tetras get my vote. But then I don't know; maybe that's because they're marginally less abrasive than the likes of Theoretical Girls. I appreciate some of the no wave era's slightly more melodic tendencies as opposed to noise for noise's sake a la DNA.

EDIT: Also, Liquid Liquid... good stuff.

Branca gets my vote...the early releases and The Static and Theoretical Girls.
Teenage Jesus & The Jerks are okay.

mars and teenage jesus, tied.

i really don't want to choose.

sway: it wasn't a historical fact, there was a certain rift between greewich and soho musicians, one camp said they were artists, the other said they were punkers and didn't like each other for the same reason; they weren't fond of each other, they really wanted to explode that negativity between, don't you know why there's only four bands in no new york?

Branca / DNA

Pretty much anything considered no wave is awesome, apart from Teenage Jesus and the Jerks. They are absolutely atrocious. I'm seeing the Contortions next month! ^_____________________^

What about The Shadow Ring? They are the materialized discordance. I'd say in terms of haggardness they outshine anything else that got mentioned. Which doesn't necessarily mean I really like them just because of that.

I think Teenage Jesus gets my vote, but the whole no new york compilation kicks ass.

Apologies for anyone already hip to what was going on back then/whoever's read Confusion Is Next... but yeah Everyneurotic's right; Brian Eno apparently effectively killed no wave because Lydia and Arto insisted he only include 4 artists on his comp. when he was originally gunning for 10 or 11. Obviously that kicked off a rift between the "included" East Village types and the rest (ie. SoHo bands), whereby the scene fractured into two; the more art-inclined (Branca and the boys) and the more punk-inclined (DNA et al). The result? Game over. No Wave wasn't really a singular movement per se.

I guess in retrospect though it's easy to group them all together, even if, say, Bush Tetras sound a thousand miles away from someone like Branca.

I've never really dug deep enough into No-Wave to be any sort of an expert, I intend to try and get that 'No New York' compilation. I do love Glenn Branca though. 'The Ascension' is perhaps one of the most inspirational pieces of music ever written for guitar (as well as one of the most transporting). Its had a huge impact on how I view the guitar.

If it is as John Cage described it "Fasist" music...fasistism never sounded so Beauitiful.

can i be a snob and say DNA? lionel is the best song ever -- danceable no wave? surely, you jest.

Too 1337 for school, huh? I don't know... I appreciate a *lot* music, but DNA for me... it's really pretty average, I think.

Mars and DNA

DNA or The Contortions cause they're so much fucking fun.

So long as you read this and agree that most people's definitions of "no wave" is far too limiting...


I define No Wave as an (anti-)aesthetic demarcation and not necessarily an idiomatic one -- that is to say that I think No Wave had (or has) more to do with a nihilistic, but sometimes totally sardonic outlook than a certain cliched guitar sound or drumbeat, as many would have you think. Simply put, the term could be utilized to define any negatively charged music destroying or disemboweling the tradition of Rock music and its platitudes through intentional noise, abstraction or atavism. By this stretch, prototypical groups like The Electric Eels, pre-first album Stooges, Suicide, Kongress, Debris, early Residents and Captain Beefheart seem to fit the parameters of term beautifully. Simultaneous to the original New York No Wave scene there was plenty of simultaneous/sympathetic activity in other places: Nervous Gender, Noh Mercy, The Screamers, Z'ev, Johanna Went, Chrome, Vox Pop a.o. on the West Coast; Einstuerzende Neubauten, Malaria a.o. in Berlin; Silver Abuse and Ama-Dots in the Midwest; Blurt, Glaxo Babies, Crawling Chaos, Whitehouse, Biting Tongues and (arguably) the whole Rough Trade brigade in the U.K.
1977 seems like a significant starting point with the concrete formation of a New York "scene" and perhaps even the coining of the actual term (need confirmation on this last point). It seemed like by 1981, most of the linchpin bands had self-destructed and that the focus, particularly in Manhattan, showed a trend veering away from primitive artistic catharsis of a group like Mars and towards somewhat dissonant or angular dance-based New Wave/No Wave/Punk Jazz/Disco/whatever (e.g. The Dance, Bush Tetras, James Blood Ulmer, Golden Palominos, Science, The Bloods, Liquid Liquid, Konk). The more intellectual, Jazz or Classical-derived "Downtown" improvisation/new music scene began to flourish at this point as well: John Zorn, Elliott Sharp, Bill Laswell, Fred Frith, etcetera. Later NYC groups like SWANS, Sonic Youth, V-Effect, Mofungo, Hi Sheriffs of Blue, Carbon, Live Skull, Rar At Rat R, etc. show varying degrees of influence of the "original" No Wave groups, but are not included here for sake of limitation.
The New York No Wave seemed directly reactionary to Punk Rock at times - Lydia Lunch in particular has been quoted as saying that Punk was basically just sped-up Chuck Berry riffs and that bands like Teenage Jesus and the Jerks were easily pushing the proverbial envelope off the edge of the desk and onto the floor. I'm not going to waste too much time arguing No Wave semantics with people -- take this site or leave it... I'm sure there are groups here that don't 'fit in' and other ones that someone else thinks are relevant that are missing; I'm game to hear these opinions or suggestions.
I am looking for more information on the groups Made in U.S.A., Devil Dogs (not the band on Crypt!), Information, Kongress, Jack Ruby, Screws, Antenna, Tone Death, Gynecologists, Rosa Yemen, 2 Yous, Daily Life, Loved By Millions, Youth-In-Asia, Blinding Headache, Boris Police Band, Arsenal, Morales, Circle X, Chinese Puzzle...
Please check back periodically for updates and please leave a message at the bulletin board.
- Weasel Walter, 1/15/00


...then perhaps we can come to recognize more than the same four bands over and over.

Now, that having been said, I think a crowning no wave moment is the "Ward" LP by End Result.

that's the legacy of no new york, people just think of those 4 bands.

yet, getting to hear the music of the other, more obscure bands is very difficult.

And the gravity of New York makes people think of only New York.

What so many Chicago bands did in the mid-90's made no wave relevant again, and it made it all the world's to share.

If no wave had a sense of ideals as Weasel Walter explains, then it really must be bigger than a musical/artistic milieu in one place at a moment in history.

Yes, but then that "stretch" relies upon Walter's own definition itself being assumed correct. Categorising no wave too broadly invariably leads to one losing sight of the key characteristics of the movement itself.

Thus we have The Stooges and Suicide being defined as no wave acts by Walter which, in my humble opinion, is ludicrous. No wave was equal parts attitude as it was the music itself. To liken the vision and intent of the Stooges to someone like the Jerks is, at best, too generous and at worst a total misdirection. I see where Walter's coming from but he's not understood the visceral nature of the NY scene that differentiated it from the other, albeit relatively similar sounds, of the same period.

No-wave was essencially an 'Anti-Music' Movement. It was a later more underground version of what was going on with music in the early part of the 20th century. Like Shoenberg and Werbern, DNA, Branca and to some extent the youth were ripping up the rule book of what 'rock' music was. I see No-Wave less of a movement and more like the ultimate conclusion of Punk.

harry pussy

I always like the broader definitions of genre descriptives more than the narrow ones.

Once the name of a new genre begins to catch on, the genre is already on its way to becoming homogenized by and large, as a second wave of artists and subsequent later-comers mostly just mimic the elements of their favorite pioneers which they enjoy most.

Yet, the pioneers who conceived or prefigured the new genre were singled out as different somehow on account of their altogether different set of inspirations, musically, aesthetically, politically, and/or technologically. Their influence funnel included such diverse elements, but the bands of the subsequent zeitgeist always mimic only "the guitar sound" and "the skeletal rhythms" and the "confrontational or nonsensical lyrics." With just one or a few hero pioneer bands looming so large as an influence, these new bands can't see past them in their rear view mirror.

The reception of "No New York" when it came out was not very good, but it did have its effect on certain bands and artists immediately. When I interviewed Bruce Licher of Savage Republic in 1995, he told me that "No New York" dominated his turntable when he was making early music, and that the only music he was aware of that was stranger yet just as compelling to him was the music of the L.A. Free Music Society, which included Smegma, Le Forte Four, Doodoo-ettes, etc. You can hear hallmarks of LAFMS and no wave all over early Bruce Licher music: Them Rhythm Ants, Neef, and the first Savage Republic album.

This is a link that reveals a similarity between NY no wave, the music of LAFMS, and music going forward in the 1980's.

Later, you'd read things that Steve Albini said about the "Tragic Figures" LP, and you might take note of the fact that Chicago's most immediate answer to "No New York" was the band Silver Abuse, and Big Black would include a member of Silver Abuse, and then also figure that the first Albini production that resulted in an actual record that wasn't one of his own band's records was the "Ward" LP by a Chicago band called End Result, who were admittedly very deeply touched by NY no wave.....and no wonder Steve Albini doesn't play his guitar like an ordinary guitar.

No wave in NYC in the late-70's was a small milieu that had a reputation for keeping to themselves and alienating each other. A lot of extreme pompousness, for sure. There was a high rate even among the pioneers of dropout and disavowal. It was a rare case of a musical genre that came and went without much, if any, of a homogenizing zeitgeist and the pathetic-ness of hangers-on. Inasmuch as the whole scene was paradoxically über-punk in its ethos and very much against punk rock a scene that could achieve assimilation in droves and a culture that could be ridiculed or despised, the later activity of no wave pioneers into 1979 and beyond largely embraced punk's anathema, disco. Hence, the Bush Tetras, Dark Day, et al. Stylistically, these bands naturally fit into postpunk or other genres, and thus, many historians signal this as the death of no wave.

But aside from the fife and drum music of Carolinian Appalachia which died when the last dude doing it couldn't convince any of his descendents to give a rat's ass about their musical heritage, just about every style and movement that has ever existed still has its hangers-on, and they're not all pathetic revisionists. Not if they're authentic in every way, from the aura and texture to the moral or political or artistic convictions at the artist's heart, and into their bone marrow.

Relationships between genre ghettos are more interesting to me than their borders.

AIDS Wolf are also a helluva lot more than a DNA record sped up. They're certainly a lot friendlier than the offputting attitude of the bands of "No New York," and while the style of the music is certainly an influence on AIDS Wolf, I don't think that the band tries too hard to define itself as "no wave" or "neo no wave" or whatever. I think it's okay for people to be disappointed in a record like the split 7" or "The Lovvers," but that is a pretty dynamic and diversely influenced band, and if you sleep on them, you may miss out on something really rad later.

When I hear the words "no wave" I immediately think of Lydia Lunch singing "Orphans" and dismembering her electric guitar. Teenage Jesus to me were the epitome of art punk at it's most brutally direct and unique. Certainly not anywhere close to pleasant, but their attrocity is absolutely perfect.

Woah - the sample on the website is freaking nuts, this moves my crazy music timeline back by years...

http://nowave.pair.com/ugexplode/merch%20tab.html

*Artist: JACK RUBY
Title: s/t
Format: CD
Label: ugExplode
Country: USA
Price: $11.00
"The first recordings unearthed of this seminal proto-punk/no wave
unit from New York City, circa 1974-1977!!! Twisted, aggressive,
weird rock on par with the Electric Eels, Debris, Simply Saucer and
early MX80-Sound! Featuring George Scott (Contortions)" - ugExplode.

“Seven years ago, a guy named Gary Reese wrote me and said he was
friends with the late Contortions bass player George Scott, and that
he could probably help me out with some information on the mythic
band Jack Ruby. Up until that point, nobody knew of any surviving
recordings by this unit. They remained a shady footnote in
underground rock history. After years of cajoling and pursuit, Gary
finally convinced Georges brother to let him make a dub of a ratty
old cassette tape with two Fall 77 Jack Ruby rehearsals on them.
Those rehearsals belied an incredible amount of guitar-skree bombast.
I mastered the tracks to eke out the most clarity possible from them
and the result was circulated amongst very few cognoscenti with
little fanfare. In 2009, another Jack Ruby tape surfaced. Gary was in
contact with Scotts old girlfriend Leslie, who had a mysterious 1/4
reel of tape with the bands name and some song titles scrawled on it.
It took some time, but I had the reel baked and transferred . . .
and, lo and behold, it featured four crystal clear-sounding 74 studio
demos! I kept playing these great demos and I thought to myself, “If
Im listening to this stuff so much, somebody else is going to want to
hear it too!” Thats the point where I knew it was my duty to
release this anthology. So, we found all the surviving ex-members of
the group and put together this fully-authorized package featuring
eight killer tracks of noisy, high-energy greatness and designed a
full-color package featuring extensive liner notes and tons of period
photos. This release is a must-have for those who crave those truly
bizarre missing links from the pre-punk past. Jack Rubys tough,
sleazy sound is a direct antecedent to both PUNK and NO WAVE.” -
Weasel Walter, September 2011.

“Maybe it was 1976. Maybe it wasnt. Maybe I stumbled into Bleeker
Bobs. Maybe a lanky giant with an immense toxic cloud of frizzy hair
and huge hands lumbered toward me. Maybe it was Chris Grey. Somehow I
ended up in a dank rehearsal space. Face to face with George Scott.
Having my head torn off by my ears. Jack Ruby. Music to murder by.
Like 3 hits of acid and a shot of crystal meth after a month long
beer binge. A brutal psycho-delic teenage scream of sexual
frustration, disappointment and misery channeled into sonic
overdrive. A beautifully violent horrible throttling. I loved it” -
Lydia Lunch, August 2011.
(the above from the latest Fusetron update)

Teenage Jesus for aesthetic and mission
James chance and the Contortions for musicianship and "tunes"

I was bounding down the street listening to Buy today wishing id had the imagination/awareness to inflict this type of thing on people when i was 17, and everyone was either listening to ska punk or The Strokes (including me)