Favorite John Zorn?
 

i'm super into him like most people i know, and yesterday i was listening to a painkiller bootleg from '95 where he and laswell and mick harris (i'm guessing is mick harris) just do some free-ish jazz and not the blastbeat minute long explosions i know and love from pk, i kept thinking "if i was at that show and they didn't play guts of a virgin or any of it, i would be pretty mad" it was a good improv but not out of this world.

anyhoo, what's ya favorite zornsky?

i like hemophiliac a whole lot and the locus solus stuff he did with arto lindsay...and the naninani 1 and 2 he did with eYe.

actually, i like it all, but those are my favorites.

ahh fuck, locus solus was the one i tried to remember for the poll, but i put xu feng instead.

sway: nope, zorn has never been in ruins.

sounds like a project he's most likely to rip off. yoshida from ruins plays with zorn on later painkiller gigs, i think only the live album was recorded with him, and they have played together in other formations, i'm pretty sure they have done cobra together.


(actually, zorn does a great job sniffing good talent out the most unlike places, and he's an original for the most part, although another one of his talents is knowing what to borrow and what to exploit, which is something we can also say about sonic youth too...we owe him in big part for the opening of the japanese scene to the west)

Oh Christ, this is faaaaaaaaaaaar too difficult to choose.

I love:

The Big Gundown
Pretty much all the Masada stuff
Painkiller
Bar Kokhba/Masada String Trio

I've not heard enough other stuff.

fuck, i thought more people were going to say something hear, or at least feel insulted by my 'rip off' comment.

ohh well...i'm going to bait more people

anything by zorn > anything by mike patton

I haven't heard much Mike Patton, but I can't beleive that he can't have put out something that's better than Zorn's "Redbird".

i haven't heard "redbird", but i can say that patton and zorn's carreers can be thought of as more of a symbiotic relationship rather than a pissing contest of weirdness.

more like a student ripping off a master...dude played rap/funk metal before meeting zorn, and sang like the dude from ugly kid joe before he heard yamatsuka eye.

Anyone seen this Zorn website before? http://www.omnology.com/zorn01.html

that doesn't mean that they still don't feed off of each others creative energy, though.

raw energy and enthusiasm; yes good point.

but patton isn't very original or such a visionary.

I like the 20th C kinda stuff like Angelus Novus and Duras: Duchamp, and I really like I.A.O.

"Tonic closes after tonight (April 13, 2007). John Zorn plays two "improv" shows followed by the final bunker ("A wild dance party with dark techno, house, and electro"). The club won't be quiet tomorrow though:

CULTURAL EMERGENCY
Musicians and Friends:
It is time to Claim what is our Right! COME to TONIC
Saturday April 14th
FROM 11 a.m. until...
WE MUST DEMAND:
AN ADEQUATE, AFFORDABLE SPACE, CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE LES!
TONIC IS BEING HANDED OVER TO THE REALTORS.
WE ARE MAKING AN APPREAL TO THE CITY, TO EITHER GIVE US THIS SPACE OR ONE COMPARABLE IN SIZE FOR THE USE OF AVANTJAZZ/NEW MUSIC/INDIE COMMUNITY.
WE CAN NOT LOSE SUCH AN IMPORTANT HOME!
YOUR PRESENCE - YOUR MUSIC- YOUR VOICE – YOUR ART - IS ESSENTIAL.
SHOW THE CITY YOU CARE ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING.
DON’T LET REALTORS DECIDE NEW YORK CITY’S CULTURAL FATE!
STOP THE LOSS OF IMPORTANT VENUES, ONE BY ONE FORCED TO CLOSE BY RENT INCREASES AT AN ALARMING RATE.
STOP THE DESTRUCTION OF THE LES AS A CENTER OF DIVERSE & VARIED & UNIQUE CULTURE.
Tonic is scheduled to close on Friday, April 13th, 2007.
The following day, we will gather to fight the eviction of this crucial venue, the diminishment of our livelihoods, and the destruction of our culture by peacefully resisting. Please join us."

I'm sure Zorn is a big part of this, god bless him.

Difficult to choose, but I'd say Painkiller and Naked City.

Had to go with Naked City. It's all good really, but I like how Naked City is like an avante-garde Henry Mancini.

I definately think Patton gets way too much credit. I just feel like he heard some off the wall avant garde-ish stuff one day and thought, "hey, that's cool, I wanna try that," without it actually coming from inside himself. And unfortunately in the world of experimetal music, if anybody attempts to do anything, they get recognition out the wazoo, worthy of it or not.

I've always had an inexplicable distaste for John Zorn. Maybe too much "weird for the sake of weird". I think Tzadik has quality control problems as well.

But that said I like Xu Feng alot.
I've seen some pretty interesting Cobra performances too.

Now this I can kind of understand. It doesn't seem to take much to get something on Tzadik.

i think hat and beard has touched the way i've been feeling about zorn, he's good but there's this sense of outrageaousness that's a little unnecesarry...even my favorite moments, bands or albums by him seem to have this aftertaste i'm not really keen on and i think it's what h&b just said.

i haven't voted myself, painkiller (the studio stuff or their live stuff with yoshida tatsuya), naked city and some of his solo stuff, i want to give masada a good listen.

Live, Painkiller was one of the most intense experiences I've ever had. On record, they don't do nearly the same for me, though still good. I think the first Naked City is still my favorite recording.

when did you see painkiller?

not necessarily true. i've heard some really bad experimental shit. i've made some really bad experimental shit. patton has made some really bad experimental shit. that doesn't mean that he still isn't an incredibly talented vocalist and brave in terms of where he pushes his voice.

Then I don't know, maybe I just don't get him then...

probably. that sort of thing isn't for everyone, and just because you like one 'experimental' thing doesn't mean you'll like it all, so i get you.

he's a good crooning vocalist but he is completely unoriginal; furthermore, his 'braveness' with his voice, he wouldn't have never even imagined to do that have he not heard ruins or the boredoms first, he's just doing a watered down version, probably thinking people in the west would never catch on with japanese bands.

patton is considered an avant-garde figure by people who think trent reznor is a noise musician.

In Seattle in either '95 or '96. I was going through a divorce, and it really was the perfect Painkiller.

Yeah, unfortunately if I don't like something, I tend to think it is true rubbish, and people who like it don't have any good taste. I need to work on that. Until I do though, I think I am in good company here.

painkiller kicking ass fuck yeah!

and no he never played with ruins.

yeah, patton's pretty overrated, i mean i fucking love mr. bungle, but that's because of the genius of trey spruance so..

as for Tzadik, i've heard a shitload of releases from them and they've all been worth a listen. i mean, jon - "smoke" is amazing!!!!! it sounds like a 4 year old girl playing organ and singing about dogs!

as for zorn.. hmm.. i dunno, i mainly and randomly have listened to various masada performances and bootlegs over the years so i couldn't say. he's cool though.

Top three favorites of Zorn:
1.Big Gundown
2.Naked City
3.Painkiller

Zorn I'm not terribly fond of, but I can recognise he's a pretty talented chap. Sometimes he seems a bit jack-of-all-trades. I quite like Masada, and some of the film score things; the rest of it leaves me cold. BUT. Unlike Patton, I get the impression he's doing something well that I don't like, rather than doing something I might like for the sake of being 'wacky' or somesuch. It's not that Patton came from a rap metal band, it's that everything he does screams dilletante at me. Lines in the sand, etc.