Why are SY so low down on festival lineups?
 

I was just thinking about this. Sonic Youth are quite a huge band. They are always talked about as one of the most important bands in alternative/indie music, so why are they so low down on festival bills? This is a band that headlined Lollapolloza in its hayday. But the last Lollapolloza they played on they didn't even headline!

Headlined Lollapolozo back when REM and Nirvana were the nation's most popular bands. These days what do you expect? I think they're better than KISS, in fact I think KISS sucks, but KISS was allowed to tour with aerosmith, I think it not fair, I wish Sonic Youth had done towered with aerosmith.

yeah, they played before flaming lips at lolla last year which would have been cool if the Lips were headlining, but i think it was mor elike 3 or 4 pm.

It's just because more then 50% of the world has absolutely no taste in music whatsoever.

There's your answer.

perhaps hugely infuential but not in terms of sales.

and of course 'because more then 50% of the world has absolutely no taste in music whatsoever.' Excellent!

Maybe the fact that a lot of modern day bands, a lot of pop acts today seem to be all about the business, money and image. A lot of bands don't play shows if they don't get their own way and don't get to be the headlining band. I think this plays a small factor in the whole Sonic Youth not headlining, because it seems they have that genuine, easy going approach and it's a competitive headlining business. I'm very tired, do I make any sense?

Who was the headliner? In a lot of these festivals, a band that is reuniting is often the headliner, since thier reunion is a good excuse to make a big deal out of something, (I.E. The Pixies, The Stooges), a band like Sonic Youth who have been around consistantly for 20 years plus will get a top place, but not the headliner.

cuz big festivals don't know shit, except when SY organise them...

I guess my question is really why they went from headlining Lollapolloza to not headlining a few years later. I mean really is their music that 'difficult'? SY are even easier than the Velvets (and you can be sure they would be headlining...rightly so) Everyone I play Incinerate to loves it. Even ordinary everyday pop fans (I use it to lure them into indie music). If Geffen had given them the push they deserved you would easily have had a top10 single. To make rather crude comparisons SY have at times written the kinda radio-friendly 'pop' singles bands like Razorlight and The Kooks only wish they could write.

When promoters organise their festivals they want big names at the top of the bill that are going to get people buying tickets, and SY just aren't going to get that happening, so they're lower down the bill.

When SY headlined Lolla in 1995, they played after Hole and routinely saw the venues emptying before they played because everyone had seen the band they wanted to see.

I saw SY in two different festivals. Both gigs were wonderful (the 98 festival gig in Nancy seemed better than the 98 Paris gig they did on their own a couple of days later), and both times they were not a the top of the bill.

I figured it had motivated them all the more to play at their best, but I could be wrong.

In 2005, in Saint-Brieuc, their show was soo powerful that I couldn't bear to stay and listen to Luke (who?).

sonicl's comment about Lolla's right. Groups have to make choices.
There were lots of people attending An Pierlé's gig (Aulnoye-Aymeries 2006), and most of those people left the place by the time Liars took the stage.

Still I dont see why when I im playing a sonic youth record people think its difficult music, its not any more difficult to listen SY as Oasis (but far more enjoyable). Its like the velvets it has this thing that people who listen to it obviously must have a more refined taste and all thats elitist bollocks. Its insane its not like SY are Merzbow (I can certainly understand as brilliant as he is that the music you be described as 'difficult'). Hell most of SY's music is pop music.

It's not that SY play difficult music, it's just that SY's name isn't going to attract as many people as, say, QOTSA or Pearl Jam (to use two examples from this year's festivals).

Ah, Reading '91. you wouldn't see a line-up like this anymore (not in this order anyway):

Iggy Pop
Sonic Youth
Pop Will Eat Itself
Dinosaur Jr
Chapterhouse
Nirvana
Silverfish
Babes in Toyland
The Honeythieves

EDIT: Apparently Nirvana were as high on the bill as they were because of SY's influence? Don't know how true that is.

I appreciate that sonicl. What I dont understand is why SY dont sell as many records anymore which would bump them up the list. Especially since they are producing arguable the most accessable music of their career. I'm not even saying I want SY to headline. Its just looking at it from Geffen's point of view, the money they could have made out of SY recently. Especially if they had got behind Incinerate as a single. It really makes no difference I just find it odd that Geffen a cruel, heartless corporation arent even good at making money anymore.

It's not all about musical accessibility, or even music at all.
When SY hit their sales peak they were riding the grunge/alt rock wave, they don't really have the same buzz about them these days.

At this stage they're established. I think the wider world has respect for them (even if they don't know their stuff, just based on name and reputation) but I think it would take a lot of work, and money, to build some serious, large scale excitement around them.

That said I agree that geffen could have done something more with Incinerate, it was a catchy tune. I did hear it on commercial radio once though.

I never ever hear SY on the radio, Bull in the heather once or twice maybe.
They seem to be getting the "cult band" slots on the big stages about 5-6pm. Unfortuntately the popular musical climate of the moment isnt with them, the thing now is to be EITHER a reunited "legendary" band or a hot new thing. I wonder if theyd split up 15 years ago and come back now what the reaction would be.

A very good point indeed... The Pixies weren't massive in their heyday were they? Yet a huge deal was made of their reunion tour... I think Sonic Youth would probably have been even bigger had they been reforming after years. I just think that a lot of artists benefit in terms of reputation from having a short lived career - Nirvana, Jimi Hendrix etc.

I think you'll find it's the young "rock 'n' roll" death that benefits those artists reputation, not their short careers. Misunderstood martyrs will always have a captive audience.

SY is ten times the band for their remarkable longevity, consistancy, and perseverance. to hell with being #1, or a buzz band, we know they're the best!

Weren't Sonic Youth to headline the 2004 Lollapalooza before it was cancelled? If you look at it's line-up, there really weren't any big Mtv names except for The Killers and Modest Mouse.

I assume promoters took a page from this by assuming that "the guard has changed" when it comes to pop culture. Mtv crowd don't know 'em, the hip crowd are forging their own scene.

Regardless of their name it seems to me they could have sold some recent singles on poppy hook lines alone. Pookie that 1991 lineup was incredable. Those were the days..

I was talking to someone the other day he thought he was the coolest music guy in the world for going to the NME tour and talking about The Automatic, The Kooks, and the Arctic Monkeys. never heard of Sonic Youth, Pavement, Dinosaur Jr. A complete and utter up himself arse. Who unfortunately did not have the musical knowledge to justify being such a prick.
Well when one takes what is cool from the NME I suppose...

Well I know for those two particular artists the young death had a lot to do with it, but if you have a short career, theres no time to screw up what youre good at is there? A lot of bands that didn't last that long have this sense of mysticism and "never made a bad record" thing - the sex pistols, the stooges (before they reunited and made their awful latest album) the velvet underground etc...

Hmm but 'Nevermind the bollocks' was mindless craptrap and even the almighty Velvets had a few stinkers. I think its to do with this quasi-religious thing that goes through music. Almost like artists have to die for their art.

yeah, but it was the start of a new movement. As for why sonic youth aren't high up on festivals. It's because SY have always been a band who thrives off album sales. Whereas a lot of bands, like say black eyed peas to name a band that was mentioned earlier. They have radfioplay and rely on big singles. Which means 'Joe public' have at least heard a few of their songs, so people want to hear these songs so they put them further up. I havn't explained this well, I hope you realise what I mean!

Yeah I think you have a point SonicSam, its just I cant understand why stuff like Incinerate, Sunday etc,etc cant get radioplay.

I dislike The Sex Pistol immensely because they represent everything I dont like about Punk, its a vulgar consolidation of all the worst elements of the movement. The fact that they sing about anarchy (an insane concept in itself, at least the form of anarchy they talked about) then around the edge of the CD is says "Copyright blah blah, Prosecution blah blah". It seems to me to be more than slightly hypocritical. They seem to be offensive for the sake of being offensive. There is no real message. At least not an intelligent one anyway. Patti Smith, The Stooges, Television, the No-wave bands they represent everything that I love about Punk. The idea of pushing against artistic barriers, making art on your own terms for the sake of art, independent music and community. Not ranting and raving with a safety pin in your noise. It all seems rather silly to me. Its a side of punk I would like to see irradiated from the pages of musical history.

because festivals suck.

At least 80%.

yeah, true I mean I don't really like the sex pistols or 'that side of punk', but without them there could possibly havebeen no punk music...then again another band couldhave come along instead of them, I mean the ramones had practically started off punk rock anyway and yeah all that sex pistols anarchy bullshit is so ridiculous.

They're going to be headlining in Portugal, but that's probably because festivals usually only have one "big" band playing each day, here.

music today is fucked in the head