Improv vs. song writing
 

Which do you prefer? Not really listening to, but playing. I prefer improvising. I've written stuff before, and I always get bored with it. But with improv it's never the same thing twice, so you never get bored. Well, that's my opinion anyways; some people get easily bored with improvising and just want to write stuff. And I know there is always the "free-jazz" aproach in the middle of writing something simple and then expounding on it though improv, but to me that just improv too.

improv by far
it can go anywhere, its exciting and you got that great feeling when you and your other band mates all read minds and jump to something that fits in perfectly

My roots are in improvisation and I am an improvisor at heart, but I have done so much of it for so long that at the moment I am enjoying writing solid musical pieces. Live shows as an improv unit can be spotty, but when it hits it's pretty amazing. Getting through a night where it just isn't happening is painful though. The nice thing about having rehearsed material is knowing the performance is gonna be solid. Most songs I write have room for improvisation/interpretation within them anyway, which helps me from getting sick of them too fast. I definitely get sick of songs if I play them too much, though.

i like both and both represent challenges of different nature.

I enjoy writing songs but I have the hardest time because I want them to be perfect so improvising is easier for me.

i think that there are not many better things than improvising with other musicians and creating something amazing that could not have happened a any other time. That said, its a hit and miss process, and alot of improvised music is boring to listen to.....

i like when improv becomes a song. starting off by just jamming, and then realizing something sounds really good, and creating a song out of that sound. thats what my brother and i do. but i dont know, its hard to say, some musicians are better at jamming, some are better at writing songs. it depends a lot on the music being played. like the ramones obviosuly, a great band, probably did not groove out to find their songs, but just wrote them down. and then theres like teenage jesus and the jerks, another great band, who probably did a ton of jamming and experimenting before a song was found. so maybe for more far out bands its better to improv, and for more simple bands its better to write? yes? no?

I agree, but I'm asking more what you like to do...

well, like i said above, my brother and i who started a new band with another friend of ours over the winter break, we just jam till we find a sound that sounds particularly cool, and build upon that. so i guess improv, not to mention i cant read music, and i also kind of think reading music and song structure stifles creativity a bit. so definitley improv, and from there, turning the improv sounds into songs. i do write lyrics tho.

I write by improvising.

I like both. Generally, though, I improvise, and then something comes that I can work on, which lead to a proper song.

I usually jam something until it develops into a song...

Then of course once Ive got a written song I just leave big gaps in the middle of it for improvising... so it all comes back full circle. and everyones a winner!

I like both. But I think when I improvise (happened mainly with bandmates/people I knew well, just a few times with people I didn't know) I have great fun, while when I "refine" and write something (which usually comes out from spontaneous impros anyway) I feel more "satisfied". Playing a nice improv gives me a more "volatile" feeling, while writing something I REALLY like is like finishing a painting. Overall I'd say I like more writing.

For listening both, for playing i'd choose improvisation cause i don't know how to play :D

I always improvise because I can't play to save my life.
I lie. Smoke on the Water!




















:o

It's gotta kill Ritchie Blackmore to be known for such a simplistic dumbass beginner riff when he can play the ass off a guitar.

I bet that's one of the first riffs you ever learnt? :)

I don't know if one has to "learn" that one, exactly.

Ha! Post of the day!

Improv is boring and goes nowhere, even if you know what you're doing. It's boring to listen to (except for some Derek Bailey records, but even that gets old..), it's boring to make, etc. Obviously, you need to improvise a little bit on your own, as the idea of "writing" also does nothing to excite me at all. So, for me, it's somewhere in the middle or somewhere outside of both.

Oh, and smoke on the water fucking rules. The first stoner rock riff ever perhaps?

Let's do it now... [On the top strings tuned to drop D to oversimply it even further]

0! 3! 5!
0! 3! 6! 5!
0! 3! 5! 3! 0!

Improv to find cool ideas/grooves, then put them in more solid arrangements that work well together.

OK, we get it. You're the coolest guy ever and nothing is a thrill for you.
I think I know what you are trying to say, but I have to tell you that was worded in a very soapbox "talking out of both sides of your mouth/talking out of your ass" kind of way.

both, i don't give either more credence than the other

Maybe you're just a bad songwriter?

Savage Clone, I have no idea what point you were trying to make there, but okay. I quite clearly and honestly explained my approach to constructing songs. Nothing "too cool" about that.

For me personally, I have to chose improv. That been said, you have to be playing with people that have the same mind set towards the music that you do. You have to be intuitive, instinctive to what the other guy is going to play and where he is going with it. I've heard before that music is a conversation, all the people need to speak, but at there own times they need to make a point. People can't be shouting all at once during the whole conversation. I agree only partially with this statement, because the most fun I have is after a long and dynamic session, at the end, just catharting myself into another place, playing with a sense of urgency, pure expression.
So it goes back to what reflects your way of life, you attitude the most? Are you a methodical, systematic planner that has a patern and place for everything, well that's cool and certainly musicians like people who know how to write, and thats where you fit in. Myself, well I wouldn't feel as good when I drop my sticks on the floor if I wasn't improvising.

That's quite possible, in fact even probable...

But even good songs get boring after a while. Like watching a comedian on 2 different shows tell the same joke. It's still funny, but there that little bit of an "ugh" factor. At least for me. Some people can listen to Jim Gaffigan talk about Hot Pockets over and over again. I can't. I know he's going to sing "Hot Pockets" in some high pitched voice, and when I know it's coming, it loses it's punch (I do love Jim Gaffigan by the way; the Hot Pocket stuff just got old). Music is a little different of course, I can obviously listen to a song more than once; otherwise I would have to be on a never ending search for new music, or I would just have to stop listening to music all together. But that doesn't mean it can't get old eventually, especially when you are the one playing it. But when you improvise, as already noted, it's never the same thing twice. You can't get bored with something if you only see or hear it once in your life and never again.

But songs don't aquire a punch line like a joke does. Songs can often improve with each listen, and are nearly always more important the second or 5th time you hear the tune or lyric. I find this the opposite effect to a joke or a comedian.

improv
just get together and start playing, see where it goes
too much pressure on writing

But doesn't all music come from improvising? It's just whether you stick with a particular riff or pattern that has come about through improvising that defines it as a 'song'.

yeah but i don't sit down and say "okay i'm going to write a song", ever.

That's what I mean.

I gather people do though. Especially when it comes to literature.

yeah i guess
that just doesn't seem like the logical way to go about it to me.

Although the threadmaker was refering to a contructed form to a free jam.

I write "chance determination" pieces. So both.

Practice is 80/20 in favour of composed stuff (although this is a relatively recent regimine).

Live, 100% improvised.

Recordings, so far, 100% improvised.

Infrequently, I'll play songs, but I never write them. I do compose stuff, but it's never up to my (impossible) standards.

I think songwriting is the single most difficult thing. If you're any good with words, you should be writing literature (I like to think I'm very good with words, but it's alway literature); if you're any good with music, you should be writing music. There are nearly no people who are good at both words and music, which is why I tend towards the inane in my own language, and prefer anything in a language I don't get. I have a faint sense that I'd love Datblygu more if I knew what they were singing, but am petrified that his lyrics won't rock me hard.