N. Korea launches a rocket, feared to be a nuke
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7982874.stm
Of all the "world will end soon" threads we have had, this is now officially the most real.

No its not.
When the USA launches a satellite or space probe what is it done with? An Atlas or Titan or Proton.
What are they? Converted ICBMs.
North Korea has no aggressive intentions, it couldn't possibly because it would be wiped out in seconds after any attack, presuming it works this can represent a deterrent capability. Obviously the Americans don't like that because its much easier to go to war against the defenceless, once again showing the world that if you can defend yourself the Americans will negotiate where as if you can't like Iraq then they'll invade. And thats something they really don't like, its like humiliating the local bully or mafia don.
Another point is that this can be used by ultra-Nationalist elements in Japan to spur on adopting an independent position, something the Americans obviously wouldn't want.

The article says nothing about a nuclear warhead.

Just suspicion that it was a long-range missile test.

Missile test =/= nuclear attack

Lay off the fear mongering.

"U.S., South Korea and other nations fear it could be a missile with a warhead attached" - http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/as...ket/index.html
Happy?

Now explain to me how a warhead is the same thing as a nuke.

why would you have a warhead attached when testing a missile? If anything is attached its a payload capsule carrying a satellite of some sort.

And in fact the article says "State media said North Korea had succeeded in putting a satellite into orbit after the 0230GMT launch."

yeh North Korea are totally launching satelites. You know, for all of their people with mobile phones and whatnot.

...the US do "fear" a lot of things in order to justify their involvement in other nations biz.

#1
WTF

#2
WTF

no really Im lolling at the second part. Please, show me any point in time where this has been true.

I'm not sure there has ever been a time where a state at war with the US has been able to sufficiently 'defend' itself and therefore 'negotiate'. If there is any remote possibility of defence the US simply calls on many smaller politically helpless(without the US) to fight along side.. and therefore CRUSH DESTROY NUKE THE COMMUNISTS ARRR. etc.

You could try reading the entire post instead of selecting one lone sentance and extrapolating it out of context.

Back to the rocket test: 3rd stage and payload crashed in the Pacific Ocean. It failed. It apparently successfully fired its 2nd and 3rd stage boosters but it did not make orbit and the satellite was not deployed. Its an improvement over their previous attempt which exploded 40 seconds after launch. So keep in mind that they are still behind the Americans and Soviets rocket technology of the 1950s.

Actually Korea has an undersea super city built where they will live after they nuke the world.

you had me at annyong.

I did read the entire post. Just didn't quote it all, because I chose to respond to one particular part. Sorry that seemed to fall short of you there.

I hate to break it to you, sparky, but just because they can finally launch a missile doesn't make it new news.

welcome to the last decade.


I'm also not sure why the Ozzy's are so upset about this (well, I know, but I don't think you should be). do you people seriously think they will waste what little new-clear material they have on yr tiny island? fuck no. if ever, that shit's going to either: Japan, Hawaii or Alaska (with technical data making the black market circuit).

yeah, you got you people'd.

australians are famous for being racist.

"Annyong!"

Obviously the Americans don't like that because its much easier to go to war against the defenceless, once again showing the world that if you can defend yourself the Americans will negotiate where as if you can't like Iraq then they'll invade.

They dont in the first place pick fights with a country that can defend itself. I'm not talking about after the fact and nowhere do I suggest that. Reading comprehension?
North Korea has a credible deterrent, massed artillery pointed at Seoul (and by now undoubtably nuclear weapons, how many and how crude is open to debate)=Negotiations. Iraq had nothing=Invasion.

A rocket that while it didn't explode in the first 40 seconds, still failed to reach orbit and crashed with payload in the Pacific - it failed.
Pine Gap wouldn't be a target?

beyond making the assumption that there actually was a payload to be delivered, this was a mission to obtain ballastic data and - it succeeded.


although Pine Gap would be a strategic target for China or Russia, the DPRK has limited munitions, thereby, they have a greater interest in striking something with more collateral damage.

besides, everybody knows that ECHELON has too many redundant sub-nodes to be affected by something so trivial as an ICBM.

Satellites gone
Up to the skies
Thing like that drive me
Out of my mind

I watched it for a little while
I like to watch things on tv

Satellite of love

yeah what a bunch of bullshit... can't a modern, industrialized nation desire to have its own communication satellites so that it does not have to remain dependent upon china and japan? (oh wait, maybe thats what the all the fuss is about to begin with, $$$?)

I think what EVERYONE FORGETS in all this is that EVERY SATELLITE LAUNCHED BY THE US USES THE EXACT SAME ROCKETS AS OUR ICBM..

we use our ballistic missile technology to launch our own satellites, so what is all the fuss?

^^^ I have some lovely ocean-front property, if you are interested.

act now!! going fast!! cheap! cheap! cheap!!

re posting what you wrote the first time, won't make me agree with you. Not sure why you seem to think I cannot read what you have written..

I dont believe that not sticking a nose in at NK at this point has anything to do with whether or not a country can defend itself. It has everything to do with resources. NK doesnt have anything the US wants right now. And as long as they keep their commie party within borders (this is where the launching of missiles becomes a bother) the US govt doesn't give a fuck.

Yeh after the fact, Im not sure why you're talking about me saying things I did not or getting angry because you think I suggested something or whatever you're quoting yourself about up there. Dont really care.

No, see, I get .... the *sigh* feeling because really I know the nukes are going to come out in my backyard eventually, and I'd really prefer it were anywhere but here.

Yr country won't decide to do anything any time soon because they will be too busy with the oil fight over in the middle east still, and trying to secure food sources from south america, and by the time japan + china + I are getting fried it will be too late.

The US has no interest in helping my country, becuase there is nothing it wants here, aside from the uranium, which everyone wants. Thus, battleground.

That's my problem.

are you taking the piss? The amount of people living ( if you can call it that) in NK that would benefit from satelite technology would be almost exactly equal to the amount of people who run the NK goverment.

And where was Australia's help during the Cold War, hmmmmmmmmm?

Don't you know that most Americans really know that the terrorists are going to dirty bomb their backyard eventually?

??? Australia has fought alongside the US consistently for the last 90 years.

If yr unsatisfied with our population/monetary support, there really there isnt much I can do about that.

all is fair in love and war.. ?

Free loaders!

I'm kidding, of course. I couldn't begin to count the ways my envisioned priorities for the USA and the actual priorities differ.

and fear

I have a feeling people aren't sure I was being sarcastic

This image provided by DigitalGlobe and made available in London by Jane’s Defence Weekly, shows what is believed to be the exhaust trail and vehicle launched from Musudan-ni, North Korea, Sunday, April 5, 2009.

That isn't an exhaust trail.

It's a narwhal tusk.

they've been pointed there since before you were born. nothing new to worry about.



despite what has been previously said in this thread, we are "not doing anything right now" not because of the DPRK's ability to defend themselves (this is a laughable thought and I think someone was calling us pussies). the REAL problem is: any "unprovoked" attack on N. Korea would anger both China and Russia. and by anger, I mean, launch codes input.

right now, Kim Jong Illllll is pushing the tolerance levels of what China is willing to take. they are already looked at like the crazy cousin that nobody wants to claim as familiy but you still have to invite to dinner. the time will come (soon I think) where China will be forced to act or continue to lose face. this is the correct way of handling the situation.


patently untrue. you wound me, madam.

if Oz was in any real danger, I would be the first to volunteer to save the women (the men can rot).

but again...you are in no current danger of attack. N. Korea hates Japan and the US much much more than they dislike you.

if in the unlikely event that they were to launch a missile, not only would it not land in Oz, I suspect that it would not land at all.

I also suspect that such an event would lead to the unveiling of our FULLY-OPERATIONAL BATTLE-STATION in the sky (dig it).

note: if we wanted to strip-mine a country for it's uranium, we would find one in africa (read: we are strip-mining africa).

YAY!!! Cold War 2. Lucky me.

yes, I am well aware of the massive inequality and poverty gap in North Korea, however, do the people who benefit from communications satellites suddenly not need them because of this? So should North Korea NEVER develop its own communications satellites simply because of its current economic conditions?

Yes, it is a waste of money at this point in the game, of course the money could be better spent, but my point is simply this.

How come the western powers are all using terms like "missile" (when it is not a missile if there are not explosive payloads) instead of rocket, and challenge north korea's position that these tests are NOT for ballistic capabilities.. in other words we are continuing the whole axis of evil nonsense... spin spin.. blah blah woof woof..

and even IF Korea wanted to make news missiles, why should we be so haughty to assume that only western powers have these rights. After all, Korea feels very much threatened by the outside powers, and do they not have the right to defend themselves against the massive ballistic missile technology (WHICH THE US KEEPS FLEXING ON PAKISTAN EVERY SINGLE WEEK) of their enemies?

Personally, I do not support ANYONE having ICBM or any such thing, but I am about honesty, not politricks, and the news/govt/intellegenstia here in the US and west are all saying a bunch of bullshit to scare the public into more more more war.. (and this is very very dangerous, the democratic party now in power has been seeking war in Korea since Kerry '04 at least)

I say fuck that, thats all.

behind those trees lie a forest.

[cue: picard_facepalm.jpg]