guitarist: suggestion = Ebow
 

I just got an Ebow at the suggestion of a friend... long story short, an electronic bow to simulate a real (horsehair) bow. It's a fantastic thing! I have a few real Glasser bows and the Ebow is more dynamic. It has different phase directions, changes drastically depending on where you hold it in relation to the p/u's, how far away and I like to let it slightly rub to get some growl in the hum.

It's great for creating swells and harmonics.

I threw up some recorded samples. Nothing extravagant, these are just short, repetitive linear melodies I was making up on the spot and are just the direct guitar signal recorded into a looper. I used the Ebow differently for each. It's pretty subtle except for the last one....

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/grabbag...2010-03-31.mp3

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/grabbag...alt-tuning.mp3

http://www.thegraphixlab.com/grabbag...alt-tuning.mp3

There's something to be said for the attack of a bow and the way you can hear it rubbing against the strings though. Ebows are more synth like.

yea they're nuts

throw it away.

my take on using effects of any kind is this: if you can't make something sound awesome without them adding the FX will just be a wonk fest.

your reasoning lacks the fact that you can make something that would sound awesome without the fx and sounds even better with it.
also, your point basically annihilate most rock music as a wonk fest, since effects are basically everywhere. not to talk about music that is actually based on the sound itself (noise, ambient, etc), which would sound incredibly more boring if there were no effects available to tweak the sound a bit...

agreed. I had a group of friends, they had a bad ass band, but they loved that fucking ebow, and I don't like it. as you say, it sounds rather artificial, and I can do ANYTHING that an ebow can do with a little vibrato and perhaps a little added gain/sustain.

I definitely think most rock music being made is a wonk fest. haha.

true, but don't rob peter to pay paul here, effects pedals are the pioneer tools of creative guitar work.. they are how all the greats of the past created the signature tools of guitar exploration which we players are forever indebted, just as the pioneers who amplified the guitar in the first place, and those who invented it from the previous less versatile stringed instruments.

maximum raspect to the pioneer singers and players of instruments.

but fuck the ebow, it sounds as fake as the auto-ya-ya over the oversatured, under-processed multi-effects pedals..

haha. I think he should invest in the peter frampton/ bon jovi talk box effect next.

Curious, and not for the sake of arguing, really...... but, I'm curious since you have such a narrow scope on creating sound.... what eludes the aforementioned tilte of "Wonk Fest" in regards to music out there? What classifies itself as "FX"? An Ebow is not an "effect", it doesn't alter the guitar signal. Isn't it just magnets? It is more or less an organic, excelerated feedback... it's not running through a digital processor? It's stimulating the strings without touching them and faster than I could myself. Where are you at with your tone... since you have it all figured out, and got a lid on it, I'd be curious to hear what your stuff is sounding like.

The only thing wonkery I'm seeing is your babblings full of double standards and hypocrisy :p

For a Sonic Youth forum, I really find the majority of posters to come across as the most prude form of music snobs across all worlds of internet. It's funny, it's sad... it's kinda baffling :confused:

I love Ebows (when properly used of course).

For me it goes back to the KISS theory (keep it simple stupid). I think FX are overused... "musicians" go running to them like a crutch when in search for inspiration without even mastering the basics.

(BTW this is not a comment on your links... I haven't checked them out. I just hate that fucking ebow!!)

well said
who gives a fuck if it sounds "artificial", synth like or whatever... what's important is to sound good.

ebows are interesting though i don't use one and don't really have much interest to. not saying there aren't useful as there is a delicate balance of use and overuse of anything... as for me the closest thing i do that may resemble bowing or an ebow is more physical by either activating the pick ups or strings them selves, i do use a bowing type technique on the strings using a screwdriver there is a definite technique to it to get the most interesting drones and tones (i guess this is a rip from GY!BE among others)...

but obviously do what you like, just be aware of overdoing it...

if you use them to make subversive noise then all is good.

I can't stand effects pedals for myself, and they are overused, but that's not a hard-and-fast rule. I like what some people do with them. And some people use them as a crutch. Ebows are often used by Keith Rowe, who's one of the greatest guitarists this fair country has produced. They are also used by stock post-rock bands, poorly.

Essentially, it's odd criticising pedals when you're using amps - it's hardly like the average amp produces the same tone as the acoustic tone of a guitar. Most rock is 'synthetic', but I hardly think that matters.

i used to really love keith rowe, then i read more about him and interviews and listening to his stuff the last ten or so years has made me think abit that at the same time that he is very revolutionary in the technique of prepared guitar (i give him alot of credit of such in my own playing) he can also be quite pretentious and self indulgant, not sure how the falling out of him in AMM exactly occured but its pretty sad.

agreed effects are very debatable indeed, i rotate only a handful pedals at most and half are varations of distortion/fuzz, along with a phaser and a delay/looper. i love what guitarists such as Lee and Nels do with all those effects they use, but its just too much on the floor for me to deal with along with trying to concentrate on the instrument itself.

I know what you're saying - I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I generally avoid interviews with musicians these days (except Mark E Smith). Rowe's AMAZING live, one of those moments where 'interesting' music completely took over, became a really intense, emotional experience. Much like John Butcher the other week. God, he was good.

Also, I tend to find most musicians worth their salt become pretentious at some point. Essentially, they get paid to indulge themselves, it's pretty much inevitable.

thats a very good point about seeing a musician live and your example of John Butcher is a very good example, i think he is great as well and doesn't come across nearly as well on record than in a live situation (i've seen him twice)... maybe Rowe i would have a refound appreciation for if i were to ever see him live.

ha ha ha ha haha thats really dumb to be asserting on the SONIC YOUTH board!

Not really... think about the use of effects throughout SY's career and you will see what I mean.

uh sonic youth started using effects pedals at least as early as 1987 or maybe 1986, especially Lee... Thurston was probably more reluctant until about the Goo period. so sonic youth have been using effects much longer than they haven't, i think for me some of it can be assumed that they went as far as they thought they could go soundwise/songwise without effects pedals from about 1981 thru 1986 by strictly using pure volume, alternate tunings and various implements (screwdrivers and drumsticks...etc)... there is the much debated "best era of SY" which could coincide with their use/non-use of effects units.

Isn't there a wah on the recorded Burning Spear? On a power drill, but still.

That's true of so many of those musicians - I have quite a lot of London improv stuff from the last 40 years or so (say free to lower-case) stuff on CD and so little of it works except live. I suppose it's for that reason I'd still like to see Mattin live, in spite of only ever really enjoying his Sakada stuff.

I saw Mattin once in a one-time trio format this was uh maybe 5 years ago at least (i think) with Tim Barnes and Tony Conrad... kinda a weird set and show, i recorded it for them but because of intense volume of Mattin and the Tim and Tony trying to also obtain the same level my recording turned into mud and the set in general was kinda "off", they definitely had potential but i don't think they ever played again together...