What's wrong with The Eternal ???
 

it pains me to ask this question, but...

...mmm...

Why is The Eternal kind of... um... not so good?

:eek:

Ok, so all the songs are great individually. But as an album it just doesn't work for me. I was just wondering if it was "just me", or if others have had a hard time... uh... adjusting to it...? It just doesn't feel complete to me in some way. I felt this way about Ripped for a time, but it faded the more I listened to the record. Even Nurse had some moments that it took me a while to warm to, but I love those records now. It's been 2 years and the Eternal still hasn't grown on me. Although I love the songs, something about the arrangement or length (or something) just doesn't click with me. Anyone else?

It's a great album.
I'm often surprised by how well done the songs are but I think I know what you mean.
To me, I think it's the post production work. I feel the parts that are supposed
to be loud and grab your attention, just don't for some reason.

I can't put my finger on it.

I love Eternal as much as the other albums! And I was very excited about it already the first time I heard it! Only thing that isn´t as good as in other albums are the sounds. Especially drums sound very typically pro-tools drums sounds. But it is ok to me, because guitars sound as great as usually.

I think it´s just that every album just can´t hit you even it is your favourite band and there are some personal reasons that is sometimes hard to understand. I was at first very disappointed at Experimental Jet Set and NYC ghosts, after few years from their release I started to like them also a lot. But still if I had to say which is the worst SY-record, I would say it is Experimental.

''Ok, so all the songs are great individually. But as an album it just doesn't work for me.''
I agree with this. I've tried finding different uses for it: doormat, pillow and toaster all seemed to work fine. It didn't work when I tried using it as a listenable album.

Why don´t you put your hate to somewhere else as SY? I mean you haven´t got anything positive to say about SY or SY-members solos since rather ripped. I think everybody knows in SYG you hate after rather ripped SY. If you some reason can´t stay away from SYG, why don´t you be just in the Non-sonics side? I mean this is Sonic Youth FAN-forum, not some common music forum where everybody should critisize the music commonly. I don´t mean anybody can´t say any negative things about SY, but you have say your comments so many times and there is nothing new.

And if you´re going to reply "I´m just answering the thread", you could have just answered "I don´t like any SY-products after RR" (well I think that would have been also unneccessary, because everybody knows it here). I love Red Hot Chili Peppers, but I don´t like at all Stadium Arcadium. I don´t still have any need to go RHCP-fan sites to repeat all the time how lousy band RHCP nowdays are.

It is a great album with lots of great songs, but I could agree that it misses that "something"(I think it has to do with the production), but I don't know..it's on my top 10 SY, defenitly.

To me it plays like a sub par, overproduced greatest hits, save the last track.
It misses the magic ingredient.
However, what do I know as EJSTANS is one of my favourites. Start the hate now.
That is due to the fact that that is the first album I bought and my entry point into the sonic youth universe.

I agree, EJSTANS is a fav of mine aswell..a lot of people hate it, I don't know why..it's a great album, one of the albums that got me into SY aswell, that one and Washing Machine. ;)

I don´t hate EJSTANS, I think it is very enjoyable album! But at first I was a little disappointed about it. Maybe because there isn´t not much of that great melodic stuff like Theresa´s in Dirty. At first I thought SY were lazy when they composed EJSTANS. But then I read some interview where they told they wanted to do life-like-album in EJSTANS, not more than life album as Soundgarden did in the Superunknown. When I started to think EJSTANS an album that has feelings from normal life, it opened a lot. By the way EJSTANS was the first album I bought immediately it´s released (Dirty was first that I heard immediately, but it took few years when I bought an LP to myself).

Nothing really.

I'm just surprised he waited until after Rather Ripped. I haven't had anything positive to say about them since they sacked Bob Bert.

Somebody said something about a "magic ingredient"

Bingo.

"Massage the History" is just classic SY. Up there with "...Golden Blue" and "Heather Angel"... really top knotch. And many of the other songs (like poison arrow) are completely awesome. But it just sounds like a B-Sider to me.

I think part of it has to do with the lack of concept. The Eternal doesn't have much of a look or unique "feel" to it like so many other SY's do. Ripped, for instance, had great artwork, represented the band really well, and had a very cohesive flow and purpose.

This album just doesn't have that. To me, it's like a heavier EJST&NS, only not as good. That album was also pretty ambiguous...

Anyway, I don't want to hate. It was my favorite album of 2009. But they were on one hell of a streak in the '00s, and Eternal ended it in my opinion. I prefer the jams on SYR9, and hope they use them as the blueprint for the next LP.

But seriously- I don't know why I don't enjoy it as much as I do their others.

I think it rocks.
And whenever I get tired or feel like it doesn't rock so much, I just listen to something else..

I think in EJST&NS isn´t any as great songs as Anti-Orgasm, Leaky Lifeboat, Antenna, Poison Arrow, Malibu Gas Station, No Way, Walkin Blue and Massage. To me EJST&NS is a kind of "we don´t take any pressures, just keep fun"-album in Sonic discography, but it´s ok, because every album don´t have to be make absolutely seriously. To me Eternal is absolutely that what I expected from SY.

That's so funny... cuz Thurston swears that Jet Set was supposed to be their "pop" album. Ha. It's still awesome, though.

If you don't like Sweet Shine, then you have some kind of psychosis or some shit. :)

No, not at all, you have understand me totally wrong :). I like Sweet Shine a lot, but it don´t make me same kind of shivers like Massage do. I really like the whole EJSTANS (well maybe at first I didn´t like it), but I think Thurston´s is right. Well, I think it is their "rock" album, I mean the way Sonic Youth plays R´n`r (Thurston has also said that Doctor´s Orders is their version from Rolling Stones Dancing with Mr. D and I think he´s right).

The Whole point is that when you have listened kind of spiritual songs like Therera´s Sound world, Disappearer, Candle, Pipeline/Kill time, Tom Violence etc. and after that heard EJSTANS where that material isn´t at all, you might be disappointed. But after I understood what´s the point of EJSTANS (And also after their made their awesome Washing machine = they made again spiritual material) I have enjoyed that album a lot.

By the way, I really like "the Eternal" -artwork, I think it´s also as good as in other SY albums. And that drums sounding is ok because it make also Eternal a little bit different than the other albums. I think it´s very good think SY has changed a little in every album. But I really hope they don´t make those "pro tools" -sounds into next album (All the producing in SYR9 is just great!)

So what´s your point to be here? To bark people how they´re listening just "mainstream-crap"? To tell the people how only real music is made by the bands whose members are young, who have been together only a year and who have only 100 listeners? I mean can´t you just go to the those "Non-mainstream" bands sites where you can find same thinking people? Or are those bands so "Non-mainstream" that they even don´t have sites?

By the way, I think Bob Bert is quite ugly drummer, he´s ok in BMR, but EVOL and Sister and the rest couldn´t ever be so great with him. And I´m also very glad Schlavunos played mostly in CIS.

Totally agree. Hopefully they use some of those unfinished tracks as blueprints for the next album, as they've done before. I really enjoyed the sound and tone of SYR9, and if they flushed it out it would be fucking great.

Wow. That's an interesting interpretation. I've never associated SY with spirituality at all, but I can see where you're coming from.

It's awesome to talk to people who think about SY as much and as deeply as I do.

Although I have listened SY over 20 years, maybe a four years ago their music hit me totally for a reason I don´t know. Since then I have thought it´s the greatest band in the world (well sometimes I think it is some other, because there are so many great bands in the world).

Before that I thought the "official" material is enough, so I hadn´t got for example any SYRS. One reason was also that my previous retailer said SYRS were too arty, that they weren´t very listenable. That time I wasn´t also very big fan of "Master-dik" (now I think it´s also very great!). So when I got that "hit" I wanted to have all the SY material I haven´t got and I was very suprised how great for example SYR1 was (it´s so beatiful, not "too arty" at all, whatever it means)! I still haven´t got SYR6 and SYR8, because I prefer vinyls, but I will buy them before this year is over! And I haven´t got many singles, because I think many SY b-sides are not so good (Genetic is a true exception, that single I will buy someday) and I also don´t think there is much sense to pay a lot for a couple of songs. Kill Yr Idols e.p is something I really want to have!

Yeah, I think it has been also great to discuss with you, because there aren´t not so many Sonic enthusiastics here (well maybe there are, but some reason they don´t discuss much about SY).

Chillax sweetie. I was only kidding, you know? XxX :)

Now I finally got it! You´re just a clown of SYG! And you´re so funny!:)

I found a forum where I could feel at home. X

The SYRS are touch and go for me. I can listen to Anagrama all fucking day long, and I think the first three songs are good as any album cuts.

There are great tracks scattered through out them all ("International Spy" is fucking incredible), but I can only listen to the serious noise-outs about once a year.

However, I do collect them like mad, and I think SYR is one of the main reasons why Sonic Youth are so much different from ALL other bands. No other contemporary artists do stuff like this.

(Except maybe the Lips, who also invest a lot of time and money into doing whatever the fuck they want, sales be damned; one of the reasons I like them so much.)

I love SYR1, SYR2, SYR3, SYR7 and SYR9 as much as those "official" albums! SYR4 is also very great, but it don´t "feed all my Sonic hunger". SYR5 is ok, but also like Thurston´s solos, there is something missing that´s in SY (Well I think Thurston got to very near of SY`s greatness in Demolished). By the way, have you got Made In Usa and Demonlover? I think they are also very, very great!

I think only real reason to make art is express yourself. Of course I understand many people have to get their bread for making art, but I don´t believe you can make a good art with thinking "I have to get enough money for this to live". And I don´t feel jealousy to any kind of artist, it´s a real fight if you live just making art without giving away any of your principles.

One point that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that it was their first album with Matador. Perhaps that has something to do with the production and choice of songs. As said individually the songs are strong but as a collection there is no flow no theme. It's like they wanted to take a different piece of every type of music that they have played over the years and put them all in one album.
Most of their previous albums seem to have a theme that all songs on that album stuck to.

But if that's the case, why doesn't it sound more like a Matador record?

If it had some kind of S&E feel, I think it would work better, but the songs are SO precisely produced and so clean. It reminds me a bit of WM at times, Dirty at others...

Like i said, the songs are great. I love all of them.

However, does anyone else think that "Antenna" sounds kind of REM-y? I think the chorus is very reminiscent of that band's typical melodic leanings.

at the first time i listened to the eternal, i thought it was great.. grew tired of it after a couple of listens

albums like goo & dirty are extremely hard for me to listen to as a whole, but i like a few songs

i think ATL is magical tho
nyc g&f, sonic nurse & murray street are beautiful as well
damn, post early-90's SY needs more recognition

Agree, but Goo is one of the only albums I can listen to thousand times in a row and think it just gets better and better. I agree about Dirty though, only a few songs if im not in a dirty-mood so to speak.

Personally I wouldn't know what a Matador record sounds like as I'm not that familiar with them. I agree totally about the clean sound though and that's what I would have considered a Matador production.

Narrative, you ignorant twats.

If the sound is clean, it's because it sounds like Sonic Youth sounds. It's right there in front of you and nobody's been messing with it. It sounds good but nobody tried to make it sound better. In that sense it is like ATL-it's what the band sounds like at a moment in history. Compare to Dirty, with, I think, alot of tarting-up the sound by Mr. Vig, booming bass, doubled vocals, and other artifacts of "production."
I like the Eternal, so maybe I'm posting in the wrong thread. I especially like how the drums are up in the mix. Steve is often obscured in the mix-you don't totally realize it until you hear them live and understand how he's driving all of it. It occurs to me, this is what SY sounds like with a rhythm section. It's the Ibold effect. So it is more rocky and at times even poppy, but I think that's ok. SY busted all kinds of music to shards in the day, but it doesn't mean they have to keep busting now. They busted it already. What's next, that's what counts.

To me, Goo and Dirty are totally different. Goo is more reminiscent of DN than people give it credit for.

Sonic Nurse has such a great vocals / jim o' rourke / production / progressive moments / beautiful sounds / cover art. I don't care if it sounds like something from the past in few songs (or not), or it has similar mood with Murray Street. That's the quintessence of the later / grown-up Sonic Youth.

Actually just played it for the 1st time in months and was struck by the genius. It typically takes me afew years to have aa full appreciation of the sy albums. Love it.

Amen sonic brutha!!!

I don´t understand about that discussion about lack of theme in Eternal, because to me it´s very hard to find clear theme from any Sonic Album. I think the sounds have been the thing ties SY-albums, and it is so in Eternal. The clearest "theme"-album is BMR and I think there isn´t also that kind of theme that is for example Who Tommy or Pretty Things S.F Sorrow. Yeah, maybe there is some kind of theme in Sister, but I think it is just behind of that album.

Maybe the problem is that Eternal sound so perfect. When I first time heard Eternal, I truly though it´s their "Sgt Pepper". I have come down to that, but I listened Eternal few days ago (I haven´t listened it a while) and still it sound very good to me. Washing Machine don´t truly sound to me like Eternal. Maybe there is something same in Daydream Nation and Goo -production, because they also have kind of "well-produced-drum sounds", but to me they also sound quite different. I knew somebodies that were very disappointed to Daydream Nation, maybe the reason is that it has so modern sounds if you compare it to Sister.

What I said before from those drumsounds, I think when you are recording with protools there always come same drum sounds if you really don´t pay attention to them (I have heard many demos made in Protools that have exactly those same drum sounds as in Eternal). And I think it´s very boring because of course drum sounds has to be like the music and those "pro-tools drum sounds" are good only in Heavy metal or hard rock.

Well, I have EVER compared SY and REM, but I have to admit maybe there is something same in Antenna and REM. I don´t know why is it so, but I have always thought REM is very much poorer band than SY, maybe more narrow is the correct word. Of course REM is quite ok band.

Yeah, I agree. Especially after hearing Nurse live. You can hear the classic post-hardcore thrum, even in the quieter songs like "Unmade Bed". There are definitely a lot of moments that remind me of Sister and Daydream.

The only problem with the album is "Dude Ranch Nurse". At first listen, it was my favorite track on the record, but now I think it would have worked better as a b-side. It's got an incredible groove, but it's thin and feels unfinished, and I wish it had been left off the album.

But yeah- even though Sonic Nurse is not even, probably, in my top 5 SY records, it's definitely quintessential. More so than Murray Street, which in retrospect was kind of a big step from all that came before it. Murray had a much different sound even than NYC and ATL. I prefer Murray Street to Nurse, but Nurse is definitely more classic SY.