[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

okay glice, but rob's wife makes twice the money he makes and he doesn't feel like his manhood is threatened or something.

Oh, you're right - unitary exceptions do disprove generalised rules. My profound apologies.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i get that there is a connection between male privilege and "the male gaze", but that doesn't mean rob is engaging in pay discrimination.

I've glossed this thread - I'm not really interested in Rob, I'm interested in the way that knox has been constantly harangued on the basis of interrogating something that's vile on the basis of the subject matter - how many times have I called a band utter dogshit and not been hassled for 20+ pages? Every time, I'm guessing? There's something about this subject, on this forum and in general, which makes most cis-men (especially hetero ones) uncomfortable, defensive and incapable of being reasonable.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i'm not "not arguing with knox because she's a girl", i'm refusing to start from the assumption that rob is a rape enabler or that one must agree with her because she simply demands it.

It really doesn't come across like that - it reads like you're hassling knox because she's a woman representing women's issues. Whether I agree with her (and whether she did start with the premise of 'Rob = rape enabler'), this thread is fucking ugly. Also, Rob's comments come in the context of several thousand posts - he's consistently been repulsively antagonistic with his sexism. He doesn't see himself as a sexist but he's incapable of keeping his desire to express his masculinity to a single 'post hot women' thread. I watch porn. So does knox, I imagine. Neither of us chose to talk about it constantly in public. We possibly might in a 'let's talk about porn' thread.

See also: knox's multiple points, especially the ones about how people are constantly bombarded with images of women. Rape culture doesn't exist in hermetic isolation. It's kind of like the sun - so big you end up forgetting it's there. If it's decided that Rob's actually a decent guy, there's still the issue of how this forum's dealing with knox, and why there are very few women here.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

lately i've been involved (elsewhere) in heavy discussions about gun control, due to the latest massacres, and the thing i've noticed is that pro-gun people tend to be more reasonable in their arguments than the anti-gun people (except when it comes to "the government wants my guns"). this worries me because the pro-gun folks are persuading me of their cause with clever slogans such as "remember when seconds count the police are just minutes away." (hard to argue with that).

This is an impossible issue for me. To me, it isn't possible to have a reasonable discussion about guns. Outside of a few rural communities, they have the solitary purpose of putting life-threatening holes in humans. So yeah, reasonable argument is very difficult on the basis of the life threatening purpose of these so-called 'guns'. The anti-gun lobby probably appear 'hysterical' because it's a total no-brainer. But that's OT.

[An aside - my partner just said "vaginas are more regulated than gun control", which is fucking brilliant]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

what i've observed gets knox angry isn't the subjects themselves, but that people dare say "no" to her. you say no to knox and that automatically makes you the worst kind of criminal in her eyes, if you say yes all is forgiven. who can argue anything in those terms? you can't ask people that they change their mind because you demand it.

You're wrong. Knox and I have been talking for a number of years now. I couldn't tell you the number of things I think she's wrong on. I imagine she's got a good idea of the number of things I'm wrong on. We have healthy discussions because she's incredibly bright and articulate. I've said 'no' to her innumerable times, and she's never said anything like some of the things she's said in this thread because I don't cross the line into grotesque, masculinist bullshit... hopefully. And she'll pull me up if I do and I'll take it on board, rather than telling her to 'chill'.