[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by truncated

I must not be communicating myself very clearly.

i think you're doing ok...

Originally Posted by truncated

I'm not arguing against the existence of works in translation. I'm not contesting that translations can be enjoyable in their exclusive identity.

well the thing is that their identity is not EXCLUSIVE. they have a referent. just like the description of a delicious food can make your mouth water, even though you can't eat the description. here it's language refering to language, and therefore there is something edible (in terms of language) that remains.

a great chinese food restaurant in new york might not be the same as a restaurant in hong kong, but you are eating chinese food after all-- in translation. you could argue "no, it's american, chinese-inspired food". sure, whatever...

Originally Posted by truncated

What I AM asserting is that, regardless of the capability of the translator, the original work, in its basest, even physical form, is mutated, and therefore cannot be deconstructed. This in turn robs the text of its inherent 'personality,' of what it retains of the author's identity.

yes, it's mutated no dobut, but you make it as if "deconstructed" was the sole thing one could do to a book. there are layers and layers of pleasure hidden, and some books survive it better than others. if your book is very close to its verbal structures (like joyce), the book is untranslatable. and yet i once met a chinese translator of joyce. he gave a lovely talk & explained his strategies. i don't want to sound like too much of an existentialist here but these heroic futile struggles can be a great source of meaning, much like in "the myth of sysyphus" by camus-- it's not putting the rock on top of the hill, it's the struggle that counts.

you know, as a bilingual creature i'm much more aware of the limitations of translation than a single-language person would be. there are so many untranslatable expressions i deal with every day, in both languages. i've even taught translation in college-- i'm very well aware of the limitations.

HOWEVER, or maybe *because of it*, i also know that translation can be a glorious thing. it doesn't 'rob" the author identity-- it preserves it the best it can for those who can't have it otherwise.

i worked on a translation of eliot's four quartets with a professor of mine-- a poet actually, not a real "academic". we went over and over and over it, never exhausting the possiblities, exploring multiple meanings, etc., and having to sacrifice many things-- but also preserving others. the man in question is the possessor of a great poetic sense and ultimately that is what counts-- it's his poetic sense, "channeling" eliot if you will.

Originally Posted by truncated

You can assert all that abstract b.s. about text being inherently interpretive (which I agree with to an extent), but such does not negate the fact that ANY alteration of a written communication will, precisely BECAUSE of its microscopic and multifaceted intricacies, quite drastically mar its original conveyance, for better or for worse.

of course i agree with that, that is however rather obvious and doesnt really merit discussion, does it? where i differ with you (and that's the important part) is in my orientation towards it-- i don't see translation as a worthless tragedy; on the contrary, i see it as a heroic quest-- doomed from the start, yet beautiful and worthy of admiration. i read books in the original whenever i can-- i've learned french also because of this, and i can manage a little portuguese and perhaps (perhaps!) some italian. but i cannot know every language and therefore i'm eternally grateful to those who've given me the gift of countless books i would not have been able to ever access otherwise.

Originally Posted by truncated

If I engage in a discussion on a piece of literature, it is not to appreciate its entertainment value, or to spout facetious, light-hearted commentary on its zany characters; I am literate and have average comprehensive capabilities, and can do that sufficiently on my own.

i think there are many levels in a text, some of which survive translation better than others, and all can be a justification for a good discussion. the quality of the discussion however will depend on the participants rather than the subject at hand.

Originally Posted by truncated

The purpose of engaging in such a discussion is, for want of a better description, essentially academic. For me personally, this is best achieved through a more technical yet all-inclusive approach, in hopes of encountering a perspective I hadn't yet been privy to myself.

while all-inclusiveness is not possible in the context of this gogol reading, there is still the possibility of a very enjoyable exchange-- there is much that survives in translation from the original greatness, and therefore it must be devoured. much more enjoyably so if in good company. if you're chicken, then simply run; but i dare you to read a good translation and still make the best possible of the discussion.

Originally Posted by truncated

In short, I can read dem words jest fine, y'all, and I do likes me a good story. But (and this is down to my personal taste), I like to pick a novel apart, examine it from all possible angles, observe how the mere conjoinment of two words can speak volumes within a sentence. I like to geek it up hardcore. And a novel in translation just isn't conducive to that.

oh, well, yes, not that. but again the poetry of a sentence is not ALL you can find in books. there are so many levels i would get tired of enumerating. by the way, characters can be a pretty interesting thing in a novel-- they are in many ways what is central to a novel and set it apart from other forms. i'm sure you have the intellectual resources to live up to other challenges as well-- don't sell yourself short; just try.

Originally Posted by truncated

So Guerney can kiss my provincial ass.

i'm sure he would love to if he could get under the tractor seat and wasn't possibly dead.

seriously, i hope you are not intellectualizing procrastination or making a baroque version of sour grapes, or looking for an excuse to avoid the pressures of a real-time discussion (hah hah-- yes im taunting). you're stuck with a dog, that barnes and noble thing. it's fucking horrible. get the right damn book. deconstruction or not, that guerney book is funny and delicious. D-E-L-I-C-I-O-U-S. like, hm, ersatz spring rolls.