[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Today's topic was FIRST CAUSE..

The Cosmological Argument or First Cause:

So this one dude tried to say that God does not have to exist because there does not have to be a first cause to the universe at all, but rather the universe could be the result of infinitely smaller causes, so that there is no truly first cause, as each cause is preceded infinitely by a smaller and smaller cause..

But I don't understand how this necessarily throws God out of the equation. If anything, having to rely on infinity I feel brings a divine source into the equation to begin with, because essentially saying, "There is no necessarily FIRST cause because all cause and effect in the universe is simply part of an infinitely fractionated series of causes.. that is a cop out. That is a circular argument, that is not necessarily science. For example, science today is bringing the circle full round, and saying its not Big Bang, its a Big Bounce, and that the universe today is the result of the contraction to critical density of a previous universe (essentially another circular argument)

I say to these kinds of thinking, what was the first cause of the previous universe which contracted?

Of course on the other side of the coin, Theologians who argue for the existence of God as the primordial mover, the Divine First Cause, are flawed in the arguing for the Comsological Theory. Their tenets claim that science looks for these circular, infinite loops of causes, and that is illogical, that there must a beginning, a first cause BEFORE infinity.. BUT:

This challenges the very concept of an Infinite God. Current models of the universe define the raw energy which is the true substance of the universe as being infinite, having neither a beginning nor and end, that is, Energy can not be created or destroyed. This is the basic premise of the Law of Conservation of Energy. So if energy can be eternal, without beginning or end, surely God who is supposed to be beyond energy can also be infinite? So those who argue for the existence of God based upon the premise that God is the beginning of the Universe, challenge the very concept of an infinite, limitless and eternal God. God must be before the beginning or more correctly have no beginning, if energy itself has no such beginnings either.

In my mind, the weak scientific argument that God does not exist because the universe is the result of an infinte sequence of increasingly fractionated first-causes actually proves the existence of God, since God must also be infinite.

In other words, we can not identify any kind of first-cause because there is no identifiable first cause because God is the first-cause but since God Himself has no first-cause, and is Himself the first-cause, then the first-cause principle itself is flawed.

If God is the beginning, but God Himself has no beginning, then logically there is NO BEGINNING to begin with..