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Originally Posted by ni'k
presupposing the human animal as a violent and self interested murderer
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This is what all animals are. This is what nature is.
And I never said that this was a justification or excuse, or even accepting of it. Sure, this might be the truth but that doesn't mean we can't overcome it. Or at least develop a system that makes if largely effortless to overcome. It's just a better starting point for understanding and fixing things.