[atsonicpark]

Oh, and smoke on the water fucking rules. The first stoner rock riff ever perhaps?

Let's do it now... [On the top strings tuned to drop D to oversimply it even further]

0! 3! 5!
0! 3! 6! 5!
0! 3! 5! 3! 0!

[krastian]

Improv to find cool ideas/grooves, then put them in more solid arrangements that work well together.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Improv is boring and goes nowhere, even if you know what you're doing. It's boring to listen to (except for some Derek Bailey records, but even that gets old..), it's boring to make, etc. Obviously, you need to improvise a little bit on your own, as the idea of "writing" also does nothing to excite me at all. So, for me, it's somewhere in the middle or somewhere outside of both.

OK, we get it. You're the coolest guy ever and nothing is a thrill for you.
I think I know what you are trying to say, but I have to tell you that was worded in a very soapbox "talking out of both sides of your mouth/talking out of your ass" kind of way.

[terminal pharmacy]

both, i don't give either more credence than the other

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by afterthefact

Which do you prefer? Not really listening to, but playing. I prefer improvising. I've written stuff before, and I always get bored with it. But with improv it's never the same thing twice, so you never get bored. Well, that's my opinion anyways; some people get easily bored with improvising and just want to write stuff. And I know there is always the "free-jazz" aproach in the middle of writing something simple and then expounding on it though improv, but to me that just improv too.

Maybe you're just a bad songwriter?

[atsonicpark]

Savage Clone, I have no idea what point you were trying to make there, but okay. I quite clearly and honestly explained my approach to constructing songs. Nothing "too cool" about that.

[RdTv]

For me personally, I have to chose improv. That been said, you have to be playing with people that have the same mind set towards the music that you do. You have to be intuitive, instinctive to what the other guy is going to play and where he is going with it. I've heard before that music is a conversation, all the people need to speak, but at there own times they need to make a point. People can't be shouting all at once during the whole conversation. I agree only partially with this statement, because the most fun I have is after a long and dynamic session, at the end, just catharting myself into another place, playing with a sense of urgency, pure expression.
So it goes back to what reflects your way of life, you attitude the most? Are you a methodical, systematic planner that has a patern and place for everything, well that's cool and certainly musicians like people who know how to write, and thats where you fit in. Myself, well I wouldn't feel as good when I drop my sticks on the floor if I wasn't improvising.

[afterthefact]

Originally Posted by Norma J

Maybe you're just a bad songwriter?

That's quite possible, in fact even probable...

But even good songs get boring after a while. Like watching a comedian on 2 different shows tell the same joke. It's still funny, but there that little bit of an "ugh" factor. At least for me. Some people can listen to Jim Gaffigan talk about Hot Pockets over and over again. I can't. I know he's going to sing "Hot Pockets" in some high pitched voice, and when I know it's coming, it loses it's punch (I do love Jim Gaffigan by the way; the Hot Pocket stuff just got old). Music is a little different of course, I can obviously listen to a song more than once; otherwise I would have to be on a never ending search for new music, or I would just have to stop listening to music all together. But that doesn't mean it can't get old eventually, especially when you are the one playing it. But when you improvise, as already noted, it's never the same thing twice. You can't get bored with something if you only see or hear it once in your life and never again.

[Norma J]

But songs don't aquire a punch line like a joke does. Songs can often improve with each listen, and are nearly always more important the second or 5th time you hear the tune or lyric. I find this the opposite effect to a joke or a comedian.

[Cantankerous]

improv
just get together and start playing, see where it goes
too much pressure on writing

[Norma J]

But doesn't all music come from improvising? It's just whether you stick with a particular riff or pattern that has come about through improvising that defines it as a 'song'.

[Cantankerous]

yeah but i don't sit down and say "okay i'm going to write a song", ever.

[Norma J]

That's what I mean.

I gather people do though. Especially when it comes to literature.

[Cantankerous]

yeah i guess
that just doesn't seem like the logical way to go about it to me.

[Norma J]

Although the threadmaker was refering to a contructed form to a free jam.

[Dead-Air]

I write "chance determination" pieces. So both.

[Glice]

Practice is 80/20 in favour of composed stuff (although this is a relatively recent regimine).

Live, 100% improvised.

Recordings, so far, 100% improvised.

Infrequently, I'll play songs, but I never write them. I do compose stuff, but it's never up to my (impossible) standards.

I think songwriting is the single most difficult thing. If you're any good with words, you should be writing literature (I like to think I'm very good with words, but it's alway literature); if you're any good with music, you should be writing music. There are nearly no people who are good at both words and music, which is why I tend towards the inane in my own language, and prefer anything in a language I don't get. I have a faint sense that I'd love Datblygu more if I knew what they were singing, but am petrified that his lyrics won't rock me hard.