[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski

A lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm in a "cop" like position at school and often have my attempts at helping turn into bitching by the students that don't take a second to see it from my perspective.?

you know, i'm going off on a tangent here, and i don't want to hijack the topic, but while in grad school i taught for 4 years, and all i have to say is that the cop approach to handling people does not, will not, ever work. it only creates resistance and encourages smartasses to beat you at the game. (i used to be the smartass student so i should know). much better is when the students see you and respect you as an "older friend" rather than fear you. took me the 3rd year to figure that out & it made my job soooooo much easier. works w/ younger kids too.

[chabib]

where did i say "all cops are corrupt assholes"?

i was just telling my girlfriend this morning how a bunch of cops have been deliberately incorrectly writing up tickets for cyclists at critical mass rides as of late as a form of silent dissent.

i have a lot of issues with authority. in general, as i've stated, it's useless "TO ME." i'm pretty sure i've made that expressly clear. you won't change my opinion. too much experience has shaped it.

not all cops are corrupt assholes. i don't just hate someone because of a uniform. i've had discussions with cops. if they respect me, the discussions go well. if they discount or ignore me, i get very provocative. 2 cops in soho found me scaling a building one night to wheatpaste some graffiti. i came down. we had a civil conversation. they liked my work. they let me go.

believe me. any of you who think you know anything about me couldn't be more wrong. one of my closest friends is one of the most publicly radical conservatives i know. the media eats up whatever "racist," "sexist," "politically extreme" schtick he's dishing at the moment. we actually agree on a lot though.

[Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski]

Trust me, I am not a "cop" at my school at all. I simply have to play the cop from time to time when I see a situation like the one I described before (a kid kicks the mentally handicapped kid in the balls). Otherwise, I'm generally focused solely on providing as much potential for knowledge as possible for my students. There are times, though, that shit goes down that needs to be looked at as an authority figure, not as a buddy.

[whorefrost]

in psychological terms, aren't extreme leftists and extreme rightists often pretty similar personality wise?

[chabib]

i don't know. i have not an ounce of respect for today's left.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski

Trust me, I am not a "cop" at my school at all. I simply have to play the cop from time to time when I see a situation like the one I described before (a kid kicks the mentally handicapped kid in the balls). Otherwise, I'm generally focused solely on providing as much potential for knowledge as possible for my students. There are times, though, that shit goes down that needs to be looked at as an authority figure, not as a buddy.

oh cool, i didn't understand that from your initial posts. about being an authority figure though, i have to say there are different types of authority figures, and the "benevolent pa" seems to have worked for me. think atticus finch.

if say you witness the ball kicking incident & display sorrow (& say how uncool that is) instead of outrage, it might make a point w/ a student that connects to you and doesn't want to disappoint you. yeah i know there are a lot of little sociopaths out there. just wanted to share since i hve a lot of time to kill right now hah hah.

ok, let's go back to politics.

[khchris(original)]

chabib, check your messages.

[Glice]

I agree with Chabib - it's very easy to relativise the situation in your own country - for instance, I can easily say, "Well, at least Britain isn't as bad as America"...There are pros and cons to both, of course, but I think it's important that patriotism isn't blindly jingoistic but actually a defence of what is good about your country. It's all to easy to look at the various wars and famine all over the world and pick up a 'at least it's not me' mentality, but this is just lying down and taking it, which is the most apathetic and apolitical thing you can do.

*Edit - didn't see the other two pages... the left is a reactionary shambles... yes.

[silverfreepress (sdasher)]

chabib, what movie did you see this weekend?

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Glice

I agree with Chabib - it's very easy to relativise the situation in your own country - for instance, I can easily say, "Well, at least Britain isn't as bad as America"...There are pros and cons to both, of course, but I think it's important that patriotism isn't blindly jingoistic but actually a defence of what is good about your country. It's all to easy to look at the various wars and famine all over the world and pick up a 'at least it's not me' mentality, but this is just lying down and taking it, which is the most apathetic and apolitical thing you can do.

*Edit - didn't see the other two pages... the left is a reactionary shambles... yes.

The problem I see in America is what most outside of the US see: ungrateful, arrogant, spoiled, self-centered Americans.

Alot of this is because the world sees what the US is capable of doing yet our country does not do it. This is clearly shown in our society how we interact with eachother and especially how we take American ideology and demonstrate that in foreign countries. For example: alot of nations see that the US does have alot of money, yet we don't contribute the percentages that smaller countries do according to their economy.

Alot of my cousins who are Japanese always say the US has so much to be thankful for and that Americans are "greedy" & "spoiled" because we have these luxuries. My french inlaws say the same thing. Infact when it comes to "business" my french inlaws talk about how fucked up the French gov't is when it comes to business & taxes and I would be willing to say that majority(I'm willing to say atleast 75%) would rather work in business in the US if they had the opportunity or could rather than France. This is just what my french brother in law tells me, who is a financial investor for high-profile European athletes.

What I find interesting is that you normally won't hear immigrants complain about how "shitty America is" because they left a more "shitty situation". I know alot of Chinese, Korean, Germans, and Japanese and it was only the Japanese(about half) that really wanted to go back to Japan after they were done with school. Almost all the Chinese/Taiwanese/Koreans said they'd prefer to live in the US. Why? Simple: opportunity to live a better life.

It's really only Americans who have not experienced life outside of America for large periods of time who complain the most about the gov't & America in general. But this is just my observation based on experiences and not the absolute in every case.

I think we have it easy here in the US. We really do. I think if you honestly feel that you have it very hard and that the Gov't and everything about America is wrong, I think there are millions of people in Colombia, North Korea, China(I know many chinese & koreans btw), and many in Africa and Middle East who would kill to have the opportunities that we have.

I think where I disagree with chabib is the case of opportunity. I view America as a huge opportunity unlike any place in the world. People all over the world come to America to go to college here because our college system/education is incredible. Many come here just to start business, especially in design because design pays much more in America than it does in Europe and even Japan, which is why you're seeing more and more European designers coming to the US to open shop and start their own business.

I've lived in Japan half my life and that I'm grateful for that, but listening to all my cousins and inlaws from Japan and France, they keep me grounded & remind me that I should not complain about anything. BTW, 2 of my cousins went to college here in the US(one in Oregon St and another at Columbia U).

As far as policing is concerned, I don't think we'll ever feel totally comfortable with police because the laws are not really made for people to "defend themselves"(only in certain cases), so we have to rely on law enforcement. Just like anything, we want it now...we want it perfect or else I'm going to bitch to no end.

Police brutality is horrible and I despise it. But, I do think it's not an "American" problem but a "human" problem because it happens everywhere. You can't blame a french policeman smacking a 10 yr old girl and say, "It's America's fault". Police brutality is a social problem, not an American problem.

Our country is so wrapped up in ourselves that we forget there's a world outside America. That's why when we go to other countries, Americans "expect" things to be "perfect" because that's just how we are...we "expect" things to suit our needs because we are used to getting our way whenever, wherever. THAT is why most countries hate American tourists. American tourists for the most part don't understand that things may not go your way and you can't bitch and complain.

Take European law for example. In America, if something does not go our way, we sue. If someone says something about our mother, we sue. If we buy shoes that make our feet hurt, we sue. If we rob a cabbie at gunpoint and he runs me over, we sue.

Europeans do not believe in suing as much as Americans do.

We complain way too much in our country. I think we have a right to complain about things and I myself complain about things, but I think there are things that some of us complain about that are misguided onto an easy target: gov't & state. Which is why I don't think it's really fair to blame police brutality on "gov't & state". You give a human a badge, of course a power trip's going to happen. This is wrong, but that's just human. It's a social/human issue, not a "state/gov't" issue.

There's alot more to police brutality than to just say, "bad cop...case closed".

I myself tend to look at: 1. why did the cop hit the kid? 2. What is it like to be a cop?

I don't see things in "black & white", which is why alot of people on this board misunderstand me completely. What I do is I look at all the angles no matter how much I oppose an angle. It's much smarter to know "your enemy" than to just go in "war blindly".

I don't like police brutality, but I do understand why it happens.

I think it is necessary to question our gov't at all times. I believe it is the patriotic thing to do considering our country wouldn't exist unless we broke away from British rule. I could not agree more about questioning our gov't.

We will always strive and want better. There's no getting away from that. If I had a job paying $200,000/year, I'd be complaining and wanting $300,000/per year. Nothing in the world will ever be perfect, certainly no gov't will ever be perfect. I don't think we should just sit on our hands and say, "oh well, atleast it's not that bad", but at the same time I think we all should follow others around the world and just understand that we all can't have our way all the time.

I personally just want to enjoy my life while I'm here and that just won't ever happen if I am always finding something to complain about. There are a million and one things in the world to complain about, I just don't have the energy to tackle all million of them.

[chabib]

Originally Posted by silverfreepress (sdasher)

chabib, what movie did you see this weekend?

none. i was working, training for track-bike racing and bothering the doormen at the dakota.

[Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski]

Originally Posted by chabib

believe me. any of you who think you know anything about me couldn't be more wrong.
.

Anyone could say this... You're on a message board for a band... you don't have to throw out the old Jenny Jones, "You don't know me!" bit. The only reason you get any more attention on the board is because people know that you're close to Sonic Youth and the whole creation of the board thing that you did. haha... But I did put words in your mouth about hating all cops... sorry for that.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

The problem I see in America is what most outside of the US see: ungrateful, arrogant, spoiled, self-centered Americans.

good point! but you forgot americans who don't give 2 shits about their democracy, and can't be bothered to protect and defend it, or even vote in elections. who don't consider the sacrifices that past generations had to make to achieve today's freedoms, and proceed to squander their birthright. who stuff their mouths with big macs while the supreme court crowns an illegitimate president. who don't care when their illegitimate government launches an illegal war, or don't care who this war kills as long as "we fight there and not here", who see war as an etertaining media spectacle. who are asleep at the wheel while their intelligence services practice torture. who are too fucking busy shopping, or watching american idol, to give a damn about anybody else, and only care about their own little comforts.

you conveniently forgot that part of being ungrateful, arrogant, spoiled and self-centered!

[chabib]

rupert, anyone can say it, but both you and khchris put words in my mouth. neither of you know me.

on a slightly tangential note, khchris took this further, and went on to suggest that i not get involved in political discussions on the board and that i temper my opinions so as not to isolate others involved in political discussions. he continued by explaining to me what my job is and described to me the relationship that i have with the band. he said some other stuff as well, but i won't get into it.

i stand by what i said. you don't know me. it's an empirical fact, and having words put in my mouth, expectations of my behavior fed to me and explanations of my roles in life projected on me sort of all puts me in a playful mood.

i select my words pretty carefully in these discussions. did i actually threaten to ban kh, or did i place an example of tyrannical behavior in terms that are directly applicable to this discussion in this sphere? i asked kh if he wanted to participate in an experiment. i'm far more creative than to just click a button and ban someone.

imagination reform seems to be more widely necessary than i'd initially suspected.

[silverfreepress (sdasher)]

unrelated to that, last weekend, my girlfriend and i were leaving a movie theater

Chris, this is why I asked about "what movie". I go to far less movies being in LA than in New York. LA, eh.. I'm curious to the numbers of the Brooklyn Bridge walk here the imigration protests were wild in number. Lots of families which is cool to see. Participation.
SD...

[chabib]

oh. last weekend. we saw the inside man.

[truncated]

This is entirely off the subject, but seeing as khchris is such a proponent of banning, in my humble opinion, he is the one who ought to be banned.

As I read the ever-growing number of posts referring to various people who may be trolling him, compounded with his other tales of persecution (whose validity I'm not questioning, I don't know the truth or fiction behind what may or may not have happened to him), I've concluded that khchris has a serious mental problem.

Man, you have to let things GO.

In all this time that I have seen you bitch and moan about supposed trolling, I hadn't seen your troll post in WEEKS. This habit of yours, of grabbing an issue with your mangy, rabid teeth and worrying it to death, is prevalent in EVERYTHING you undertake on this board, not just with trolling. You meet opposition, and you simply REFUSE to come to any middle ground.

And frankly, you're just becoming an annoying fuck. A majority of your posts contain a new accusation of who may be your troll, or a warning to another that they too might acquire a troll soon. Again, the irrelevance of trolling to the threads your posting these in makes these little asides of yours really damn irritating.

Is this because you're an obsessive, egocentric assboil? Have you been feeling deprived of attention, because your troll HASN'T been around?

"Wait, everyone! You've stopped paying attention to me. Don't forget, I have a troll, I must be worthy! Did you hear me? Troll! I have a troll! Maybe YOU'RE the troll! Am I cool enough to be trolled? LOOK at me!"

I wouldn't be surprised if you are your own troll, just to garner attention.

So anyway, my point is, seeing as nearly all of the instances/mentions of trolls on the new board are coming from khchris himself, and he's

IRRITATING AS ALL HOLY FUCK,

I think that if anyone should be banned, it should be him.

[jheii]

I think don't think that governance or law enforcement are inherently evil, or that they are filled with evil people, BUT... I think that authority is something that can bring out the totalitarian impulses of people with any number of repressed sexual desires, or whatever you want to call it. Long story short, the less government, the less law enforcers, the better. As long as the people find a way to protect themselves from violence and fraud, we'll be alright. If it's government and police, so be it. But let's have less of them, shall we? And stop taking so much taxes out of my paycheck.

[next step]

Originally Posted by chabib

the US government needs some new ways to terrorize americans. anyone got any suggestions as to how they might repress and antagonize us further?

let me think....................it's just done: other 4 years of bush!
hey I was thinking about what could means the name 'bush'.
well my my dictionary says: uncultivated zone ! hihihihihhi