[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

That's part of the problem. Nationalism in Britain anyway is very selective about what it celebrates as 'great'. It celebrates institutions (the monarchy, the military) but sees any kind of radicalism as running counter to that greatness. So the SAS are celebrated but not the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Women's Institute but not The Diggers - and yet it was that radical spirit which had far more of a hand in the creation of things like the Welfare State - something I'd happily wave a union jack for over a royal wedding. And it's why I support the campaign to make Blake's 'Jerusalem' the national anthem.

i had to read a bunch of wikipedia articles to know what you were talking about, which is great (well, not about blake, you caught my reference to him i think, but about everything else).

and yes: it's usually the vast majority of idiots which defines "nationalism" these days, and on the worst possible terms.

Originally Posted by Nefeli

basically this.
stupid:its like missing the point. of life, humanity.
dangerous: its used to serve interests.

right, but without XIX century nationalism you'd still be in the ottoman empire, no? (there would still be an ottoman empire, probably, all the way to bosnia. also, india would still be a colony. but there would be no nuclear arms race with pakistan... always many sides to everything).

serbia/kosovo/etc

[Glice]

I don't mind nationalism, in the same way I quite like books. There are some books that are shit, some that are good, some that are AMAZING, and some that were written by James Joyce and are therefore better than everything else (with the possible exception of Cixous). England is a bit like that convoluted simile.

Or rather, nationalism is alright in a more-or-less way. You can like one thing without negating another (unless that other happens to be Australia, obviously).

Non-exhaustive list of things that are great about England: convoluted relationship to tea; Lady Sov; Dutty Ken's DJing and accent; old men's shoes; The Barley Mow, Bedminster; library staff; flustered horny old ladies; organised football brawls; that accents change in 20 mile radius, when China (for instance) doesn't change for hundreds of miles.

[knox]

i just think people shouldn't wear t-shirts, jackets and scarves with flags.

[evollove]

I'm American but I prefer English culture. What does that make me?


(C'mon. Easy set-up. Don't let me down.)

[demonrail666]

sensible?

[Phlegmscope]

I feel that nationalism is, on some level, intrinsically arrogant concept, because it often has an idea of unequality of peoples with different background. It's sporting team logic. i.e. "we are above the others".

It becomes dangerous when it's being used as a tool of power. Nationalism is often fueled by nostalgic ideals and fantasies, which has a blinding effect on people. Thus they feel that they're justified to do a lot of the stupid shit they do.

I understand that nationalism has it's time and place in the history, but modern nationalism / patriotism seems to go hand in hand with conservatism, which I find regressive. I don't understand this craving for the imaginary "good ol´ times".

[knox]

Originally Posted by evollove

I'm American but I prefer English culture. What does that make me?


(C'mon. Easy set-up. Don't let me down.)

wow.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

I'm American but I prefer English culture. What does that make me?

oh, i don't wanna go there

Originally Posted by Phlegmscope

I feel that nationalism is, on some level, intrinsically arrogant concept, because it often has an idea of unequality of peoples with different background. It's sporting team logic. i.e. "we are above the others".

It becomes dangerous when it's being used as a tool of power. Nationalism is often fueled by nostalgic ideals and fantasies, which has a blinding effect on people. Thus they feel that they're justified to do a lot of the stupid shit they do.

I understand that nationalism has it's time and place in the history, but modern nationalism / patriotism seems to go hand in hand with conservatism, which I find regressive. I don't understand this craving for the imaginary "good ol´ times".

you could be a nationalist and a futurist-- e.g. marinetti and his protofascist friends. while the original ideas of nation had to do with "blood" and the "mother/fatherland" and all that shit, it's not necessarily a throwback. going to the moon was a nationalistic pursuit but it was very much about conquering the future (it didn't work, but that's another story).

nationalism is in the end just a form of social identity, which goes with our tribal/herd instinct-- you belong to a family, a tribe, a city, a nation, etc. we're social animals and it's part of our human nature, harcoded in DNA. the issue is not if should exist or not: it can and it will. the issue is how to make it productive and beneficial instead of some dumbfuck shithead psychological dysfunction like hooliganism or perpetual warfare, much like you can be part of an awesome family or an alcoholic fucked up one. and yes, the "national family" of any country has a lot of sad drunken uncles, senile grandmas, and crackhead cousins.

[jon boy]

nationalism to me means people who lean on the side of racism and general right wing policies, thats from my experience anyway.

in canada a lot of people wear 'canada wear' and stuff like that and its generally accepted, even though it makes me uncomfortable but being english and seeing people wear england t shirts back home i would stay away from them.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by evollove

I'm American but I prefer English culture. What does that make me?


(C'mon. Easy set-up. Don't let me down.)

A Paedophile