[porkmarras]

Well,Tokolosh asked me to start this thread so i thought i'd give it a go.If you ever came out of a pub on a friday night in any town in Britain,you'll probably be familiar with your vomit-splattered surroundings by now.

[jon boy]

indeed i am. walking around any town or city on a saturday or sunday morning is like walking on a mixture of broken glass, puke, blood and chewing gum.

[Norma J]

Isn't that any town that has a pub or a vicinity which serves alcohol?

[Tokolosh]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Well,Tokolosh asked me to start this thread so i thought i'd give it a go.

I knew that it was a bad idea to even mention it...

Are you trying to get me lynched?

[jon boy]

just anywhere.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by jon boy

indeed i am. walking around any town or city on a saturday or sunday morning is like walking on a mixture of broken glass, puke, blood and chewing gum.

My favourite will always be the chewing gum-art that you get on tube escalators.All those adverts ruined by chewing gum are fantastic yob-art.

[jon boy]

in berlin everything is covered in grafiti.

[Tokolosh]

Let's not forget the coastal areas of southern Europe, that get raided by holiday hooligans in the summertime.

[Hip Priest]

Yes, we are. There are too many, and we've more or less given up on trying to do anything about them.

[sonicl]

As a nation as a whole, we're not particularly civilised and we do seem to produce a lot of meatheads, but don't ask me why. Something to do with the class system, I expect.

[Hip Priest]

Hello sonicl. Happy Nw Year, dude.

The yobbery is something to do with a prevailing culture of socialist don't-blame-the-criminal-blame-society-instead attitude that was adopted 30 odd years ago, I would suggest.

[jon boy]

yeah that and booze.

[Tokolosh]

I'm convinced that football plays a major role.

[Glice]

I can generally ignore the thugs. They don't really bother me too much. Once you've had a couple of run-ins, you know where to go, where to avoid, how to talk your way out of it, and when to run (paraphrasing Kenny Rogers there).

I will say, being back in the back-arse of parochial no-where coming from London (via Bristol), it's a lot worse in smaller towns in Britain. And, again, back in my cross-dressing days (don't ask) I got a lot of verbal abuse but a lot less threats because (strange logic ahead) I looked a bit too strange to actually get started on.

[Hip Priest]

But it all stems from the fact that we effectively abolished the idea that people should feel personal responsibiliy for their actions.

[porkmarras]

As a foreigner and a merciless observer,i'd say the biggest problem is the whole attitude towards alcohol that you have in this country.Even though the laws have changed,you still have pub landlords looking down at people who simply want a drink and a good night out as if they are criminals.If you treat people as if they are untrustworthy,they will most certainly end up like that as a result.

[sonicl]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

But it all stems from the fact that we effectively abolished the idea that people should feel personal responsibiliy for their actions.

We also abolished the ability of the police to do anything about thuggery. The police can't take any action, the courts just don't.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

I'm convinced that football plays a major role.

I think that football is merely another convenient focal point for yobs to create a throwback 'community' around their beliefs, with regular opportunities to meet up. The yobs are not just violent around football matches - they really are in town and city centremost nights. Somehow 'dealing' with football will not deal with the problem, because in the final analysis football will in no way the problem.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by sonicl

We also abolished the ability of the police to do anything about thuggery. The police can't take any action, the courts just don't.

Exactly. We legitimised the yob's behaviour by not condemning it.

[sonicl]

When I was a kid I was terrified of the police. These days kids just laugh at them.