[Screaming Skull]

https://pitchfork.com/news/james-chance-dies-at-70/

[The Soup Nazi]

Goddammit.

[The Soup Nazi]

From New York Rocker, January 1979. Hysterical. In case you didn't follow JC through the years, I can tell you the guy eventually... "grew up". A bit. Nowadays nobody would get away with this shit, though. You've been warned.

1/4

Q: Why Interview James Chance? A: Because He's There

Roy Trakin (Who Really Wants to Know) Talks to James Chance (Who Isn't Telling)


The Introduction

THE FIRST cut on No New York is the Contortions' 'Dish It Out', and that it does, leaping out at you like a snake shedding its skin. The twisted, snarling rhythms owe at least as much to Albert Ayler, James Brown and Duke Ellington as they do to rock 'n' roll, and a quick glance at the James Chance record collection confirms this suspicion. Alongside Iggy, Nico, the Sonics and the Strangeloves, sit Voodoo Trance Music, Bohannon and Kool and the Gang.

When James Chance (nee Sigfried) first came to New York about two years ago, he gravitated to the nascent Soho loft scene, where avant-garde jazz was experiencing a rebirth of activity. Musicians who remember him from that time claim his saxophone playing sounded as if he had just picked up the instrument, though his assortment of squeaks and noises was uncannily effective. He subsequently joined Lydia Lunch's Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, layering his patented, maniacal sax parts over the primal Lunch sturm und drang. Chance's frequent forays into the audience were too much for Ms. Lunch to bear, though, and James left to front the Contortions, featuring ace guitarists Pat Place and Jody Harris and the unique keyboard stylings of Adele Bertei. The result was a mixture of free-form jazz and punk rock, the swirling, intense, anarchic beat somehow managing to come together and form a murky, dangerous undertow that sucked in the listener. Chance himself continued to goad the audience with his outrageous behavior, and the whole spectacle was very entertaining.

The Contortions' personnel has undergone a series of shifts lately, with Adele leaving to form her own girl group. As for James, he is currently involved with a disco project for ZE records (formerly Rebel), and has recorded four songs under the nom de plume of James White and the Blacks. Two Contortions' tunes, 'Contort Yourself' and 'Almost Black', have been given disco treatments, while two hilarious originals, 'Stained Sheets' and 'Heatwave', are also in the can.

'Stained Sheets' is a new wave version of Donna Summer's seminal disco hit, 'Love to Love You', featuring Lydia Lunch as an obscene telephone caller, breathing heavily over a relentless beat. 'Almost Black' features the distinctive guitar work of the Voidoids' Bob Quine and the never-before-recorded vocals of Ms. Bertei. All told, the stuff I heard is wonderfully amusing and marvelously effective, a historic punk/disco fusion.

James Chance is certainly a talent, although my interview with him was not as informative as I would have liked. It is difficult to penetrate the Chance "no" facade of negativity and anti-intellectuality, just as it was with Lydia in my interview with her, but I still believe, if you read between the lines, you will get an accurate view of this young man. Rather, in typical blank fashion, what Mr. Chance doesn't say is much more revealing than what he ultimately does say.

[The Soup Nazi]

2/4

The Interview

New York Rocker: Is the saxophone the only instrument you play?

James Chance: No, but I don't really wanna talk about that.

NYR: How long have you been playing?

JC: What interest is that to anybody? Why would anyone care how long I've played the saxophone?

NYR: I guess to get an idea of where you've been and where you're going. Do you not want to talk about your past?

JC: Not only that...I'm not interested in having a perspective on things.

NYR: Tell me about your disco project then, the one you're working on now...

JC: I already told you... it's my disco album, take it or leave it.

NYR: It's being sponsored by Ze records, formerly Rebel Records, the ones who put out the Mars 45?

JC: Yeah.

NYR: Were you given free reign to do what you wanted?

JC: When they first got me to do it, they actually thought it would be like a Donna Summer record, but they soon found out differently.

NYR: Why do you insist on performing different types of music under different names? Why not emphasize your eclecticism rather than deny it?

JC: Well, that's pretty boring...

NYR: You think having multiple personae is more interesting?

JC: I never think about it...they're just commercial labels, they have nothing to do with me.

NYR: Why did you change your name?

JC: To make it more commercial. Because I didn't like my original one.

NYR: Do you believe in flexibility regarding the musicians you collaborate with or do you favor sticking with one group through thick and thin?

JC: I hate all that sentimental crap. Every person in my band is totally for themselves.

NYR: Does that mean you allow each of the individual members to explore his or her own particular obsessions? It's not like Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, then, where Lydia calls all the shots?

JC: I'm pretty dictatorial. I do what I think is right.

NYR: Are you fanatical about having total control over the sound of the Contortions?

JC: Well, I don't have to be fanatical because I do have control. The people in my band make up the things themselves that I want. That's why I got them.

NYR: Was your entry into the musical world through jazz?

JC: I'd rather we not discuss it.

NYR: There's nothing to be ashamed of, James.

JC: It isn't a matter of being ashamed, I just don't want to talk about it.

NYR: What are your feelings about the No New York album? Are you satisfied with the results?

JC: I already told you about the album. Take it or leave it. Why should I give a sneak preview? They should buy it. I'm not giving them a free peak.

NYR: How did you feel about sharing the LP with the three other bands (Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, DNA, Mars)? Do you feel akin to those groups or not?

JC: NO! I feel akin to Teenage Jesus, but not the other two...Wait, I don't feel akin to Teenage Jesus either.

NYR: What was your experience with Eno in the studio? Did you relate well to one another?

JC: I DO NOT relate to people!!

NYR: Were you intimidated by him?

JC: Of course not.

NYR: Was he intimidated by you?

JC: More than I was intimidated by him...

NYR: Were you responsible for how the production sounds?

JC: I thought I was at the time...

NYR: Are you disappointed with the way it sounds?

JC: Disappointed is not a word I would use...

NYR: What would you change? Do you have a criticism of your cuts on the record?

JC: Why should I criticize it? That's boring...

NYR: Well, what do you think about when you listen to it now?

JC: I don't listen to it.

NYR: Do you listen to any music during the course of the day?

JC: Occasionally, but I don't pay attention to it.

NYR: Are you always bored?

JC: That's a boring question. Go on to another one.

NYR: What is it about sentimentality, about viewing the past, that you abhor?

JC: It's liberal crap. I just don't want to hear about it. Why should I clog myself up with that garbage? I mean, I try not to sit around pondering, I try not to think.

NYR: Does that make you a man of action, then?

JC: No, I'm more a man of reaction.

NYR: Going back to the performances last May at the Artist's Space. Can you tell me something about your theory of confronting the audience?

JC: It's no theory.

NYR: You intentionally try to make an audience feel uncomfortable?

JC: Of course I do, but I don't have to. I could just step right out on stage and stand there, and they'd still feel uncomfortable. But then, that's boring.

NYR: Are you going to continue those kind of tactics in the future?

JC: Wait and see...

NYR: Has Iggy been an influence in this regard?

JC: I'm not interested in talking about Iggy in this interview.

NYR: Listen, James, you've got to talk about something in this interview. You've got to reveal yourself a little to me. You were talking more when the recorder was off...

JC: It's not a matter of revealing myself. You want me to give free publicity to these other people.

NYR: Talk about yourself, then....

JC: Don't tell me to talk about myself! Ask me a question... You're the interviewer!

NYR: Where were you born?

JC: Timbuktoo, the North Pole...

NYR: I just want to know something about you, what your influences were growing up. Are you disaffected? Do you merely want to be part of the rock 'n' roll gristmill, with your face in Creem, touring on the road 300 nights a year?

JC: I'd never tour three hundred nights a year; I'd be dead within a month. You gotta be crazy to do that.

NYR: Do you feel part of the rock 'n' roll world at all? Are you comfortable in your role?

JC: I don't feel comfortable anywhere. I don't identify with any kind of group, or anything like rock 'n' roll. That's just another example of maudlin sentimentality — people having this big love affair with rock 'n' roll. I have nothing to do with rock 'n' roll...

NYR: That's pretty irreverent...

JC: Not even irreverent. If you're irreverent, it means you have a need to be reverent.

NYR: What do you intend when you cop a riff from, say, Duke Ellington's 'I Got It Bad', at the start of 'Jaded'? Is it supposed to outrage, amuse, impress?

JC: It's not supposed to be anything. I just play it.

NYR: Certainly you have ideas. It can't be entirely instinctual.

JC: Yes it is. All I do is just try to remember the notes.

NYC: Do you write music?

JC: Like write it down? No.

NYR: Can you read it?

JC: No. I used to know how, but I forgot.

NYR: I think, despite what you say, you are guilty of setting up strict categories of music, e.g. jazz, disco, new wave, etc. Is there a real difference between these types of music, as far as you're concerned?

JC: You just decide what you wanna steal from, and you steal it.

NYR: So, it depends on the source you're stealing from, then?

JC: I feel, that's a very confused question. Let's move on to something else...

NYR: Why do you draw delineations between the different types of music you perform?

JC: I don't think anyone else is interested in why I draw delineations; I think they would rather hear something more amusing.

NYR: How do you intend to tie your various musical personae together? Do you have any sort of career plan in mind?

JC: I don't even think about things like that. I don't think about my career. That's the worst thing you can do...have a career. If you're going to have a career, you might as well go to an office every day.

NYR: Do you have any ambitions?

JC: NO! That word is not in my vocabulary.

NYR: Do you read?

JC: No, I used to, but then I realized what a worthless pursuit it was.

NYR: Haven't you discovered a community of peers with similar interests in the new wave?

JC: NO!!

NYR: Don't you hang out with these people? What are you thinking when you're with them?

JC: Mostly how creepy and disgusting they are...

NYR: Is there a strain of self-hatred running through your personality?

JC: I didn't say it was self-hatred...

NYR: Yeah, but by hanging out with these people you supposedly hate night after night...

JC: I don't do it night after night, that was six months ago...

NYR: Are you often depressed?

JC: What is this, a soap opera or an interview?

NYR: Are live performances exciting for you? Do they alleviate your boredom?

JC: Yeah, I guess they're more interesting than most other things. But, it's still pretty banal...

NYR: Are you going to continue playing music?

JC: Well, it's about the only thing I can do. That's where the most money is, and it's easy.

[The Soup Nazi]

3/4

NYR: How did you first get involved with Lydia and Teenage Jesus?

JC: I met her and that's all.

NYR: Do you have compatible personalities?

JC: I wouldn't say we're compatible, no.

NYR: Did you learn anything from her musically? Did you exchange ideas?

JC: Teenage Jesus is Lydia's band. I just made up my own parts and that's all.

NYR: Did that band become, finally, too restrictive for you?

JC: Teenage Jesus was the only time I didn't front my own band.

NYR: You don't consider yourself part of any movement, then?

JC: AARGHHH! NO!! I DESPISE movements!! I'd never be part of any movement!!

NYR: Is the grouping on No New York, then, a marriage of convenience?

JC: Yeah, someone else's convenience, not mine!!

NYR: Was it a rewarding experience making that record?

JC: I never feel rewarded by any experience!!

NYR: Did you learn anything? Was Eno helpful at all?

JC: Yeah, he gave me a record. I learned I should produce my own records from now on.

NYR: Did he allow you to do what you wanted?

JC: No, he did it his way. He thought his way was the best way to do it.

NYR: Was there discussion?

JC: No, he just called me up and I had to go in the studio and do it that day, I had never even spoken to him about it beforehand. I just heard from other people on the record he wanted to do it. But, don't get me wrong...me and Brian are pals!!

NYR: Do you feel your music is unique and has never been done before?

JC: Yeah, I think my stuff is the only thing around which is any good, too.

NYR: Why?

JC: Because everything else is shit.

NYR: That's pretty dogmatic, isn't it?

JC: No, there are, of course, a few exceptions.

NYR: Who is your favorite band of the moment?

JC: Beirut Slump, Lydia's new band. That's the only band around I like. The outfits I'm grouped with are the ones I least want to be grouped with. I want nothing to do with that art bullshit!! Whenever I see those art-types is when I get the most violent.

NYR: Do you have a trip about wanting to be black?

JC: I don't have trips, period!! Especially about wanting to be black!! That's the least thing in the world I'd ever want to be — black!!

NYR: Do you idolize James Brown?

JC: I don't idolize anyone!

NYR: From your record collection, it's obviously all you listen to.

JC: Because it's the most interesting music to me, but that doesn't mean black people have any great thing about themselves besides their music. I mean, I like the music despite how disgusting I think black people are.

NYR: How do you feel as a white person playing black music? Don't you succumb to the very liberalism you despise?

JC: I'm NOT a liberal!!!

NYR: Do you get along with blacks?

JC: Not really.

NYR: What do you see happening to race relations in this country?

JC: I think they're deteriorating and I think it's great.

NYR: Do you predict race riots?

JC: Now that black people are smart enough to attack the source; I mean they always were...

NYR: Burning and looting?

JC: Yeah, I think it's great.

NYR: What do you think about reggae?

JC: I hate everything about it. The idiocy of these scummy hippies, living without washing and smoking pot all the time and prancing around like a bunch of faggots, playing the prissiest music ever written with all these idiot white people gobbling it up like oatmeal.

NYR: Are you political at all? Do you try to be totally individualistic?

JC: I don't try to be anything. If I see in the newspaper that four hundred people killed themselves, I might buy it, but other than that, I don't pay attention to any of that shit!

NYR: Do you have a sense of humor? Can you laugh at yourself?

JC: I don't see myself as anywhere near as funny or ridiculous as 99% of the people around me.

NYR: Is laughter a legitimate audience response to the Contortions, as far as you're concerned?

JC: The laugh is on them!! I mean, if they want to be a bunch of horses, sitting around, braying and laughing, they can go right ahead.

NYR: What's your attitude towards your audience?

JC: They are despicable.

NYR: How do you feel about applause?

JC: I think it's ridiculous. Why do people think I'm going to like it if they applaud? They applaud for anything, anyway.

NYR: Why do you perform? Is it satisfying?

JC: I wouldn't say it was very satisfying.

NYR: Why is your music so frustrating, so tension-producing?

JC: Well, partly because my band is usually pretty fucked-up when we go on stage. It isn't meant to make you feel good. Those people don't deserve to feel good!! They should feel nothing but a heel sticking in their mouths, grinding away.

NYR: You're not very tolerant of humanity-at-large.

JC: How can anybody be? Just look at them!!

NYR: Don't you sense the things you feel increasingly mirrored in contemporary culture? You're certainly not alone in the way you think!

JC: The only thing I look at in the mirror is myself.

NYR: Don't you see yourself as a possible commercial entity in the future?

JC: I'm a commercial entity right now!

[The Soup Nazi]

4/4

NYR: How do you expect to succeed if you continue to insult and alienate your audience?

JC: I'm gonna shove my way in! Who would want to have a relationship with a bunch of idiots anyway?

NYR: Still, you're far from alone — you have your band, a manager, friends...

JC: I'm not interested in those stupid, simpy, Neil Young ideas about being all alone. That's just a load of sentimental, hippy bullshit!

NYR: What are you talking about in your lyrics, then? A perpetual frustration that can never be satisfied?

JC: I don't know if I would say it's a frustration that can't be satisfied.

NYR: When you're in a group of people, do you feel you're a negative influence? Do you make people feel uncomfortable?

JC: I certainly hope so. When I start making people feel comfortable is when I start to worry.

NYR: That's truly perverse.

JC: How can anyone be interesting when they're comfortable? When they're comfortable, they're just vegetating and getting fat!!

NYR: Are you an anxious person, then?

JC: Yes, I am. I like being anxious.

NYR: Are things moving along as quickly as you'd like?

JC: Of course not. I should have enough money right now to buy a car, if I wanted, round up all my friends, cruise around the streets, pick up all the creeps we hated, and send them out to a concentration camp in Nebraska, or Guyana maybe...

NYR. You you enjoy getting beat up?

JC: By whom?

NYR: Are you a masochist?

JC: What do you mean?

NYR: You provoke trouble.

JC: That has nothing to do with masochism! I provoke trouble for the sake of trouble, not for the sake of masochism.

NYR: Can you handle yourself in a fight?

JC: I can scratch and bite pretty good!

NYR: Why did you use that picture of you with black eyes for the back cover of the No New York LP?

JC: It was the only good picture I had. We had to submit our own photographs, so that was the one I used.

NYR: Does 'Jaded' also steal a riff from Archie Shepp's 'Blase'?

JC: NO! It does NOT! I may like Archie Shepp's playing, but I never copied one note from him!

NYR: Who are your favorites in the jazz world?

JC: I'm not a critic; I don't sit around thinking about those things!

NYR: Do you think white people can play funky music?

JC: Sure they can, but that doesn't mean anything. They might be total idiots and still be able to play funky music.

NYR: What is the difference between white and black music? Is there a mystical difference in rhythms?

JC: It's got nothing to do with magic!! That's just a bunch of nigger bullshit. Black people have simply developed one form of rhythm while white people have developed a different form. Teenage Jesus, for instance, is totally white music, as far as Rhythm goes, and I like that just as much as any black music.

NYR: Are you a religious person in any sense of the word?

JC: Please...

NYR: Why do you think so many jazz players turn to religion?

JC: Because they're idiots.

NYR: How do you avoid it?

JC: By not being stupid.

NYR: What do you believe in?

JC: It's ridiculous to believe in things. It's the height of absurdity.

NYR: Do you have a large ego?

JC: You need a large ego; anyone who doesn't have a large ego is a wimp.

NYR: Are you into any kind of musical theory?

JC: Of course not. I pick up the instrument and play.

NYR: How does the rest of the band know their parts?

JC: I tell them and they adapt it themselves. They usually come up with better parts than the ones I give them.

NYR: Were you ever a hippie?

JC: Need you ask?

NYR: What were you doing in 1969?

JC: None of your fucking business!!

NYR: Did you have long hair?

JC: I had fairly long hair.

NYR: Are you from the Midwest?

JC: Yes.

NYR: Did you attend college?

JC: I wouldn't say I attended it. I went there occasionally.

NYR: Were you political in the 60's?

JC: I liked it when they had riots.

NYR: You like chaos?

JC: It's much more entertaining.

NYR: What would you like to see happen to an audience after one of your performances?

JC: Either be completely insane or completely terrorized. Either complete submission or complete insanity.

NYR: Is analysis dead?

JC: I don't ever have to analyze things.

NYR: Doesn't your music break things down into primary elements? Isn't that its theoretical underpinning?

JC: It is not a theory! It's a physical effect the music's supposed to have!

NYR: Is your music planned or spontaneous then?

JC: What I do on stage is not planned at all. It all depends on who's sitting out there staring at me... I mean, there's certain people I want to destroy, and there's other people I have too much contempt for to even do that.

NYR: Do you respect any of your fans?

JC: I have no respect for a fan. A fan is the lowest creature on earth.

NYR: What is the coolest reaction to have to your band, then? Is it cool to walk up and punch you out?

JC: No, you think people who would do that are cool? It doesn't matter what you do...

NYR: Should people be thinking about themselves at a Contortions performance?

JC: People should not be sitting there analyzing themselves. If they do, I'm gonna slap them right in the face. I don't think about what the audience's response should be. I just think about the attack. I couldn't care less what they do. They're a bunch of idiots and they're totally boring to me.

NYR: What is the future for James Chance? Are you going to make a living in the music business?

JC: Well, making a living is a pretty boring idea, I don't like to think about it. I let my manager do all my thinking for me.

NYR: Are you going to follow up the release of No New York by appearing in other cities?

JC: If someone gives me a date, I play...I think that's enough of this interview already, that's pretty much. You've got enough.

NYR: You don't want to do any more?

JC: NO.

© Roy Trakin, 1979

[The Soup Nazi]

From The Baffler:

James Chance, 1953–2024
In memory of the jazz-punk contortionist