[cryptowonderdruginvogue]

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/k...reativity.html

[pbradley]

I agree. The hierarchical structure of public schooling of the sciences over the arts undermines both the necessity of the arts as well as the original thought in the sciences. This why I believe that philosophy should be taught earlier on as a way to bridge a communication between these two forms of education in a seminar-style setting. Of course nobody wants to spend tax money on another class which many of the most stupid but successful people will deem useless.

[!@#$%!]

i havent seen the video (TED is awesome though) but OF COURSE, schools are shit, shit, shit.

when i spawn i'm part-homeschooling.

pbradley, if at that point in the future you're still broke but interested in testing your theories, i might be hiring tutors.

ps- but you cant' be on mars. no. no. no.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

public schools in america are a prison. the administration can literally arrest the kids, can unlawfully search and detain them for ANY reason, and in the end, ruin their lives absolutely through endless court drama. I won't fuck with them, as an educator I work with Catholic private schools.

Its not that the pope is any better, its just that these private schools are not prisons, there are no armed guards roaming the halls, and they never drag youth into classrooms in handcuffs..

it is just a fact of the military-industrial complex, they expect me as a teacher to pump out a generation of soldiers, politicians, and industrial workers for the system's benefit. they dont actually care about the youth at all!

[Glice]

I can't really speak for America, but I think it's a bit extreme to suggest that the schooling system is outright negative. Isn't this chap just talking about redressing the art/ science balance?

And, to Mr Bradley - this may seem horrifically pretentious, but philosophy (good philosophy, philosophy well-studied rather than pontificated upon like porno top-trumps) comes from both a very egalitarian mindset that only become relevent when people reach a certain maturity. Everyone knows philosophy, the study isn't worth it until 'adulthood'. The basics - your Platos and DeCartes could be taught, but I'm happy enough that that's an option 16+ here.

I never had a single dance lesson growing up. I might've been the best dancer ever.

[pbradley]

I'm not talking about teaching advanced philosophy, or even teaching philosophy at all. I'm talking about a class that allows students to engage in Socratic dialogue, to actively philosophize, which is not impossible. In fact, I attended a public high school in which my Psychology teacher (who also taught English) employed the Socratic dialogue approach when discussing class readings. A public school, and she is/was one of the most popular teachers amongst the student body. Junior and senior years are perfect for philosophy and many students, as I have, beg for it.

Hmm, I think I just arrived at my final paper topic for my Plato class. The education system!

[EVOLghost]

maybe.

[greedrex]

i think it can develop creativity as much as it can totally destroy it. depends on the children AND the teachers. Alchimies happen, and bad shit also....believe me

[wellcharge]

i think the fact that you get graded in creative classes like art,drama etc. could kill creativity, i always had bad grades and didn't usually bother censoring myself to get a good mark, but a kid who is trying to maintain a very high average would probably not want to take risks on art assignments

[afterthefact]

I think the problem is relying too much on any educator other than yourself. Parents send their kids off to school and pass them the responsibilty of raising their kids while they pursue the career that they spent their entire youth training for, and the cycle continues, getting worse and worse as it goes.

I think schools can be used right if you want to. I think high school has been turned into nothing but a college prep school, so I can see somebody rendering it totally useless to them. But unless you, as a parent, feel you can do a better job at teaching math and reading (and have the patience to do both) don't get too extreme and yank your kids out of kindergarden just yet.

EDIT: And yes, I realize that I got off subject a bit, since this was a discussion of creativity, and I brought math and reading into the mix. Keep in mind though that those are very important subjects as well. Also remember, your kid may have no interest in the arts. Some people don't. It is true that schools need to balance this out, only to give children the chance to make an informed choice on what they want to do with their lives. But if they aren't going to help you kids with that, remember that it's not their responsibility, it's yours.

[greedrex]

Originally Posted by afterthefact

Parents send their kids off to school and pass them the responsibilty of raising their kids while they pursue the career

exactly
well said

[Glice]

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, but I get increasingly pissed off with people blaming their school for their not being terrifically clever. Education doesn't start with school and doesn't finish when you leave. There's no reason why someone who had minimal education up until 18 couldn't be a genius, but people tend to get lazy when they don't have to do something.

[Grete]

I think so, especially in Italy...
sigh sob sob

[Rob Instigator]

fucking A, especially when class ;projects look like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTmZrJYF_DE

[Danny Himself]

I have probably learned more from my own reading and my parents' influence than I ever did at any school. I wouldn't say that schools kill off creativity- or should I say educators? Educators don't kill off creativity. At least not where I went to school. It was more the school experience as a whole, being thrust into a 500-strong group of terribly discriminating young gentlemen and ladies who were cruel and prejudicial, as British children generally are. One could quite easily grow to fear ever being seen as 'creative' or 'different' because one knows that means a bloody good beating from your peers.

The frightfully 1960s 'modern' edifice of the school building and knowing what ineffably moronic classmates lay inside was a huge turn-off, to the point of where I stopped bothering with work and spent all day waiting to go home. I learned- and forgot in turn- pages of pointless mathematics and biology, and barely scraped together enough knowledge to get my GCSEs. I did, however, seek some sort of solace in the Art Dept- that was the only place I actually did put in some effort (I got my only A there). I don't know where I am going with this, but thats basically my high school days.

In conclusion- it is not the schools that kill the creativity, it is the malice and/or apathy of the young people within.

[Danny Himself]

Oh shit, that was my 9000th post. Tight.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ps- but you cant' be on mars. no. no. no.

Yeah, I'm somewhere else now but I don't know where.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

I can't really speak for America, but I think it's a bit extreme to suggest that the schooling system is outright negative. Isn't this chap just talking about redressing the art/ science balance?

And, to Mr Bradley - this may seem horrifically pretentious, but philosophy (good philosophy, philosophy well-studied rather than pontificated upon like porno top-trumps) comes from both a very egalitarian mindset that only become relevent when people reach a certain maturity. Everyone knows philosophy, the study isn't worth it until 'adulthood'. The basics - your Platos and DeCartes could be taught, but I'm happy enough that that's an option 16+ here.

I never had a single dance lesson growing up. I might've been the best dancer ever.

no, the chap sez that "education" is mostly one size fits all, which is mostly aimed to eggheads like you or pbradley or yours truly, and not to people like my nephew who is currently medicated for "hyperactivity" but whom i argue is a true physical genius who could be an olympic champion for fucks sakes but no, he has to do his homework, blagh.

re: philosophy etc. -- people need to learn to think critically or we end with shit like this:

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by pbradley

Yeah, I'm somewhere else now but I don't know where.

beware my nucular weppens

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

no, the chap sez that "education" is mostly one size fits all, which is mostly aimed to eggheads like you or pbradley or yours truly, and not to people like my nephew who is currently medicated for "hyperactivity" but whom i argue is a true physical genius who could be an olympic champion for fucks sakes but no, he has to do his homework, blagh.

re: philosophy etc. -- people need to learn to think critically or we end with shit like this:

I'm not starting a gay argument, but he definitely talks about the heirarchichal nature of education and the industrial reasons behind it, that's not the same as saying that education is one-size-fits-all; he's drawing a parallel between changing economy in the face of new ecological/ financial paradigms and the current skew of education towards literature, maths, the sciences changing towards the creative. Your post came across as condescending, sort it out would you?