the other news - Page 12

!@#$%! · 03.21.2019, 08:43 PM

may asked to leave? by her own party? just heard

demonrail666 · 03.22.2019, 02:20 AM

That'll be on top of the 17 million people who asked for the same thing, 2 1/2 years ago.

Derek · 03.22.2019, 09:31 AM

Now that I think about, why not a second vote? If the government believes in the certainty of the people's will then the result will be the same? Riiiight?

Genteel Death · 03.22.2019, 11:09 AM

Over 3 million people signed the petition to revoke article 50. Whoa!

!@#$%! · 03.23.2019, 07:41 AM

the washington post’s european correspondent skewers theresa may and blames her for everything

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a41_story.html

choice quotes (these are just mostly insults, there are long explanations in the article) :

She is not sensible, she does not know what she is doing, and, increasingly, she doesn’t seem to be entirely sane either.

[...]

almost everything about Brexit — from the nature of the deal she negotiated to the divisions in her party and her country — is very much her fault.

[...]

She is not to be pitied: She is the worst prime minister in living memory, presiding over a crisis of her own creation.

[...]

The list of her mistakes is not short.

[...]

But her errors go even deeper. In fact, all of the events of the past two years have been shaped by a decision she made, by herself, following bad advice, at the very beginning of this process.

[...]

Her decision also created potential problems for anyone who trades with Britain or works with Britain — and for Brits who trade and work in Europe. But she was not sorry: She accompanied her decision with a speech that called “a citizen of the world” nothing more than “a citizen of nowhere” and immediately alienated a large part of the country.

[...]

She went on to alienate almost everyone else. Until this week, nearly three years after the referendum, she made no effort to reach across the aisle and include opposition parties in the planning for this momentous national change.

[...]

Although the E.U. has been entirely transparent about its negotiating goals from the beginning, she kept hers secret. She tried, and failed, to prevent parliamentary scrutiny of her deal.

[...]

She does not respond to pleas, advice, suggestions. Columnist Matthew Parris has described her as “the Death Star of modern British politics,” a black void that sucks in people and ideas and never provides a response.

[...]

Her secrecy and incompetence have created ill will in Europe, and real anger in the House of Commons, some of whose members have belatedly tried to take control of the Brexit process.

[...]

she spent her whole life, motivated by loyalty to the Tory party, training for this job. Now she has it — and she has used it to steer her country into a humiliating crisis.

[...]

The slogan of the “Leave” campaign, back in 2016, was “Take Back Control.” But Europe has now taken back control of May’s botched Brexit. And however it ends, it won’t be a success.

lmao

now i finally get it

GravitySlips · 03.23.2019, 10:54 AM

Making "taking back control" is not particularly wise given the complete and utter failure of the country's political process regarding Brexit.

Can we have MORE control from Europe, please? Some competent politicians would be absolutely great rather than the constant Labour/Tory farce of the last 3 years. Two years completely fucking wasted and the promise of a weaker economy and country to come. Get May and Corbyn to fuck, seriously. Cannot imagine two worse people to have navigated this crisis.

demonrail666 · 03.23.2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravitySlips

Can we have MORE control from Europe, please? Some competent politicians would be absolutely great rather than the constant Labour/Tory farce of the last 3 years

In light of the last 3 years, I admit this is very hard to argue against.

!@#$%! · 03.23.2019, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

In light of the last 3 years, I admit this is very hard to argue against.

curious, i know you voted to leave, but would you be a remainer at this point?

demonrail666 · 03.23.2019, 02:35 PM

No, I'd still vote Leave. mainly on the issue of democratic accountability - not that that too isn't currently being made a mockery of in Parliament.

!@#$%! · 03.23.2019, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

No, I'd still vote Leave. mainly on the issue of democratic accountability - not that that too isn't currently being made a mockery of in Parliament.

oh i see you meant that europe could give you a better exit deal than the idiot may & co.

ps i did not know till i read that article that it was may's choice to leave the customs union [edited some errors out]

demonrail666 · 03.23.2019, 02:55 PM

I'm in favour of leaving the customs union, too. I would back no-deal. It's not just that I consider the EU undemocratic, I disagree with how it does business. I disagree with it on a whole host of issues. I disagree with a lot of how the British Parliament does lots of things but, again, there's a democratic process that, in principle anyway, at least allows for the possibility of change.

h8kurdt · 03.24.2019, 05:24 AM

I don't understand how you can still be fine with a no deal when all the signs point that it'll be an absolute total mess. When people say "oh it'll be fine eventually" how can they not wonder at what cost in the immediate aftermath?

!@#$%! · 03.24.2019, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I'm in favour of leaving the customs union, too. I would back no-deal.

oh then i dont understand your reply to gravity slips

but anyway, how would you deal with a hard irish border then? isn’t that a result of leaving the customs union? and isn’t this what supposedly nobody wants? i’m new at this...

demonrail666 · 03.24.2019, 09:02 AM

The hard border would be an option but so far neither the UK, Ireland or the EU show any interest in enforcing it.

I think Britain needs radical reform. The customs union prohibits that and, as I don't see any evidence of the EU reforming itself, I want out. There's risks, but I'd prefer those to the slow strangulation by the EU, with no chance of change.

!@#$%! · 03.24.2019, 09:14 AM

option how? without an agreement and exiting the customs union you get a hard border by default. no?

i’ve read of talks of a fast “electronic” border but that’s still vaporware

GravitySlips · 03.24.2019, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I think Britain needs radical reform. The customs union prohibits that and, as I don't see any evidence of the EU reforming itself, I want out. There's risks, but I'd prefer those to the slow strangulation by the EU, with no chance of change.

As a Scot, I think that now (and I was previously ambivalent about it), I'd use similar arguments for wanting Scottish independence after all this. Previously I'd erred on the side of preferring radical reform to the UK electoral system rather than the risks of outright independence, but it just feels difficult to deny the complete fracture in sentiment between Scotland and elsewhere at the moment. That said, it looks like similar divides are seen throughout different areas of England, too (London vs the North East, for example).

Interesting times ahead - lots of people are going to be angry, regardless of what happens next.

demonrail666 · 03.24.2019, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

option how? without an agreement and exiting the customs union you get a hard border by default. no?

i’ve read of talks of a fast “electronic” border but that’s still vaporware

It's only as hard as the resources put in place to enforce it. Remain-favouring MPs are threatening it but without any public will for it I see no reason why they would.

demonrail666 · 03.24.2019, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravitySlips

Interesting times ahead - lots of people are going to be angry, regardless of what happens next.

I think that's inevitable now. This is an irreconcilable split, greater even, I think, than the current one in the US, over Trump.

!@#$%! · 03.24.2019, 10:09 AM

so the problem with the backstop was the potential return to the customs union then?

demonrail666 · 03.24.2019, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

so the problem with the backstop was the potential return to the customs union then?

Basically, yes.

I've linked this argument for not signing the customs union cos it's not from a 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' Leaver, but from someone from the Remain camp who still rejects it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...imports-brexit

03.21.2019, 08:43 PM	#221
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	may asked to leave? by her own party? just heard
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.22.2019, 02:20 AM	#222
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	That'll be on top of the 17 million people who asked for the same thing, 2 1/2 years ago.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.22.2019, 09:31 AM	#223
Derek invito al cielo Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,095	Now that I think about, why not a second vote? If the government believes in the certainty of the people's will then the result will be the same? Riiiight?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.22.2019, 11:09 AM	#224
Genteel Death invito al cielo Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,744	Over 3 million people signed the petition to revoke article 50. Whoa!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.23.2019, 07:41 AM	#225
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	the washington post’s european correspondent skewers theresa may and blames her for everything https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a41_story.html choice quotes (these are just mostly insults, there are long explanations in the article) : She is not sensible, she does not know what she is doing, and, increasingly, she doesn’t seem to be entirely sane either. [...] almost everything about Brexit — from the nature of the deal she negotiated to the divisions in her party and her country — is very much her fault. [...] She is not to be pitied: She is the worst prime minister in living memory, presiding over a crisis of her own creation. [...] The list of her mistakes is not short. [...] But her errors go even deeper. In fact, all of the events of the past two years have been shaped by a decision she made, by herself, following bad advice, at the very beginning of this process. [...] Her decision also created potential problems for anyone who trades with Britain or works with Britain — and for Brits who trade and work in Europe. But she was not sorry: She accompanied her decision with a speech that called “a citizen of the world” nothing more than “a citizen of nowhere” and immediately alienated a large part of the country. [...] She went on to alienate almost everyone else. Until this week, nearly three years after the referendum, she made no effort to reach across the aisle and include opposition parties in the planning for this momentous national change. [...] Although the E.U. has been entirely transparent about its negotiating goals from the beginning, she kept hers secret. She tried, and failed, to prevent parliamentary scrutiny of her deal. [...] She does not respond to pleas, advice, suggestions. Columnist Matthew Parris has described her as “the Death Star of modern British politics,” a black void that sucks in people and ideas and never provides a response. [...] Her secrecy and incompetence have created ill will in Europe, and real anger in the House of Commons, some of whose members have belatedly tried to take control of the Brexit process. [...] she spent her whole life, motivated by loyalty to the Tory party, training for this job. Now she has it — and she has used it to steer her country into a humiliating crisis. [...] The slogan of the “Leave” campaign, back in 2016, was “Take Back Control.” But Europe has now taken back control of May’s botched Brexit. And however it ends, it won’t be a success. lmao now i finally get it
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.23.2019, 10:54 AM	#226
GravitySlips children of satan Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 373	Making "taking back control" is not particularly wise given the complete and utter failure of the country's political process regarding Brexit. Can we have MORE control from Europe, please? Some competent politicians would be absolutely great rather than the constant Labour/Tory farce of the last 3 years. Two years completely fucking wasted and the promise of a weaker economy and country to come. Get May and Corbyn to fuck, seriously. Cannot imagine two worse people to have navigated this crisis.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.23.2019, 02:35 PM	#229
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	No, I'd still vote Leave. mainly on the issue of democratic accountability - not that that too isn't currently being made a mockery of in Parliament.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.23.2019, 02:55 PM	#231
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	I'm in favour of leaving the customs union, too. I would back no-deal. It's not just that I consider the EU undemocratic, I disagree with how it does business. I disagree with it on a whole host of issues. I disagree with a lot of how the British Parliament does lots of things but, again, there's a democratic process that, in principle anyway, at least allows for the possibility of change.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.24.2019, 05:24 AM	#232
h8kurdt invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In Mulder's Basement room Posts: 5,459	I don't understand how you can still be fine with a no deal when all the signs point that it'll be an absolute total mess. When people say "oh it'll be fine eventually" how can they not wonder at what cost in the immediate aftermath? __________________ Down with this sort of thing.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.24.2019, 09:02 AM	#234
demonrail666 invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18,510	The hard border would be an option but so far neither the UK, Ireland or the EU show any interest in enforcing it. I think Britain needs radical reform. The customs union prohibits that and, as I don't see any evidence of the EU reforming itself, I want out. There's risks, but I'd prefer those to the slow strangulation by the EU, with no chance of change.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.24.2019, 09:14 AM	#235
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	option how? without an agreement and exiting the customs union you get a hard border by default. no? i’ve read of talks of a fast “electronic” border but that’s still vaporware
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

03.24.2019, 10:09 AM	#239
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,547	so the problem with the backstop was the potential return to the customs union then?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|