[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

I think that folks like Beyonce and Taylor Swift and Kendrick Lamar have shown us in recent years that people do still care about the album format.

And the whole "nobody cares about Illmatic" thing is maybe the dumbest thing ever said in this thread. And pepper posts here drunk. Sorry, Rob. Love you. But I think you're way off base on this one.

Don't forget Adele! Blaahaha!

Seriously though, I feel you. But personally I'd point to a few less populace names when arguing about the enduring power of the album.

DJ Koze is such a master craftsman of albums that his DJ Kicks mixes and label samplers play with the studied, finely tuned pacing and sequencing of Sgt. Pepper. Nicolas Jaar too. Ben Frost? Forget about it. That guy makes fully listenable opuses out of noise and lightning and fire and ice.

Chance the Rapper doesn't even MAKE "albums" but you wouldn't know it from listening to Acid Rap or Coloring Book. Mixtape, whatever. Those are albums in everything but name and price.

Car Seat Headrest -- who I think you'd love, since you seem to have a soft spot for '90s indie pop like Weezer -- is making albums of Fleetwood Mac level scope, and half of his discography is just SoundCloud and bandcamp zip files.

But yeah, certainly Beyoncé, her little sis, and Kendrick (without question Kendrick... in fact he may be the king of the "album" in the 2010s) and others are still doing it old school. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Kanye (cause I haven't yet today)... but even when he deliberately tried to distance himself from the album format, he still ended up with the most memorable album of the year, hands down.

And Frank Ocean.
Even Gucci, who's determined to plow out as much material as possible, is closing out the year with THREE fully formed albums (plus a mixtape), with physical packages and everything. SO albums are still out there. They're still important.

Fuck, and David Bowie for shit's sake! Talk about an album with mass appeal and old school cultural reach and significance. I predict Blackstar will win Album of the year at the Grammys, btw.


I love albums. I'm never going to be a playlist guy.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

I think that folks like Beyonce and Taylor Swift and Kendrick Lamar have shown us in recent years that people do still care about the album format.

And the whole "nobody cares about Illmatic" thing is maybe the dumbest thing ever said in this thread. And pepper posts here drunk. Sorry, Rob. Love you. But I think you're way off base on this one.

i get what rob was saying, its true Illmatic is in the pantheon like Hendrix is, on name recognition alone. honestly i doubt too many kids today really listen to it

[noisereductions]

what he said was

illmatic is overrated. No one nowadays gives a shit about it. even old school heads don't care no more

1. I can't quantify how "overrated" something is, so won't try. But I disagree.

2. I think people today do still "give a shit."

3. I promise that "old school heads" care deeply about Illmatic. It might be why there have been two books written about this 9-song (10-track) album in the past few years, along with a film about its creation. Because people still care about it.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

what he said was



1. I can't quantify how "overrated" something is, so won't try. But I disagree.

2. I think people today do still "give a shit."

To be sure i haven't heard any new rappers reference or big up Illmatic neither heard any new shit that sounds influenced by it

3. I promise that "old school heads" care deeply about Illmatic. It might be why there have been two books written about this 9-song (10-track) album in the past few years, along with a film about its creation. Because people still care about it.

yeah yeah but how much of that is nostalgia or reverence and how much is actually listening to that album on an consistent rotation? Has it become a museum piece I think is Rob's point and personally I think its a fair one

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

To be sure i haven't heard any new rappers reference or big up Illmatic neither heard any new shit that sounds influenced by it

not to be a jerk, but you also don't listen to a lot of new rappers. Joey Bada$$ def sounds influenced by Nas/Illmatic for one. And obviously that goes for Pro Era.

I'd say that bits of A$AP Mob ("Trillmatic"!), Flatbush Zombies, and their peers especially in NYC are def still influenced by it.

yeah yeah but how much of that is nostalgia or reverence and how much is actually listening to that album on an consistent rotation? Has it become a museum piece I think is Rob's point and personally I think its a fair one

I don't think that was his point, unless I took it wrong or he had trouble actually saying it. I mean saying that "old school heads" don't care, would to me mean that people who still listen to old school hip hop don't listen to that one album and see it as "overrated," and I totally disagree.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

not to be a jerk, but you also don't listen to a lot of new rappers. Joey Bada$$ def sounds influenced by Nas/Illmatic for one. And obviously that goes for Pro Era.

I'd say that bits of A$AP Mob ("Trillmatic"!), Flatbush Zombies, and their peers especially in NYC are def still influenced by it.

care to be a bit more specific? A quote, a specific track? Something other then more or less conjecture? I am not sneak dissing, legitimate question. Just because I don't listen to all new rap, doesn't mean I haven't heard enough to notice if something sounded like something as foundational as Illmatic!

I don't think that was his point, unless I took it wrong or he had trouble actually saying it. I mean saying that "old school heads" don't care, would to me mean that people who still listen to old school hip hop don't listen to that one album and see it as "overrated," and I totally disagree.

I could be wrong, Rob is definitely grown enough to explain himself, but my interpretation of how Nas can be overrated is just that, while he was huge in his era, I just haven't seen the kind of lasting impact on a new generation, the way say Nirvana has. Young kids are talking about all kinds of new rap, young kids are talking about all kinds of great legendary rock bands, I just haven't overheard a conversation or seen a t-shirt or any kind of reference to Nas or Illmatic from the teenagers today.

As to the oldheads, same thing, while most of the people our age or slightly older certainly bumped Nas and Illmatic in its day, I haven't gotten into anyone's car or went to anyone's house or just heard a car passing by bumping that record in YEARS..

meanwhile I hear things like Tupac and Biggie routinely..

[Rob Instigator]

No rappers under 30 give a flying fuck about Illmatic.

why should they? It is meaningless in their world.

Hell, most young rappers these dayd don;t even fuck with Jay Z or Kanye! They are OLD, man! Nas is like grandpa's music, and NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT IT

[noisereductions]

Alright well i am losing interest in conversing...

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Alright well i am losing interest in conversing...

 

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

No rappers under 30 give a flying fuck about Illmatic.

why should they? It is meaningless in their world.

Hell, most young rappers these dayd don;t even fuck with Jay Z or Kanye! They are OLD, man! Nas is like grandpa's music, and NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT IT

You're wrong Rob. Maybe some dumbass kids don't know Illmatic, but there are plenty (PLENTY) of dumbass kids who do. Can't blame them, really. It's more than 20 years old. A lot of these rappers were pre-zygotic when that shit dropped. But the ones who care about hip-hop from a historical and social perspective (like Anderson. Paak, Kendrick, Chance, Homeboy Sabdman, Action Bronson, blah) all goddamn well know and love Illmatic and Tribe and Wu and the rest of the golden gods.

And I have no fucking idea why you think modern rappers don't fuck with Kanye. Jay, sure... he's a bit stuck to a previous era, but Kanye's still doing features with new bloods, still signing new artists that are blowing up. I know you don't like Kanye West but that man is ungodly influential, and still almost absurdly relevant. I'd say that even if I didn't like him.

Look around man. Look at the new kids on the block. If you can't see Kanye'a influence on Lil Uzi Vert you're not looking. Kanye is essentially the blueprint for Chance the Rapper, who is without question the leading name of the mixtape rappers. They've been on eachothwr's albums... hell, Kanye kinda broke Chance into the mainstream with ULB.

Schoolboy Q's biggest hit? THat Part, with (who?) fucking Kanye.
Young Thug? Named a song after Kanye, featured on a Kanye track, jumped onto Ye's MSG party and has had the biggest year of his career as a result.

Kendrick fucks with Kanye.
Travi$ Scott? A literal Kanye protégée, working for and with the man.
Future and Drake owe their careers to (who?) ... Kanye.
Partynextdoor? Oh, that dude's publicist mentioned Kanye by name as the only artist doing what PND could do.

Don't let those shit-colored glasses through which you view Mr. West blind you to the truth. Kanye West IS hip-hop and has been for over a decade. He is having a bigger influence THIS YEAR on up and comers than he's ever had before. Don't be a fool. You may hate him, but every rapper you like has constructed themselves around a little piece of Kanye West.

I won't even entertain a counter-argument. You're just wrong.

[Severian]

Also, perhaps the biggest influence on Kanye (who is the biggest influence on hip-hop)? Illmatic. Nas might be a caricature of his formerly self, but he helped lay the groundwork for the kind of transcendent rap albums that have elevated the genre from "rap" to "music," period. Without qualification.

I'd even go so far as saying that without Illmatic there would be no MBDTF, and no good kid, mAAd city.

You can talk all you want about how this dumb sit rapper doesn't fuck with Nas or care about Illmatic, but all that proves is what we already know: that they're dumb shits who have no appreciation for their own history. They all owe their careers to Illmatic, and if they can't realize that, they're vacant little pussies who -- like all American young adult males -- think life started with them.

They'll learn.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

care to be a bit more specific? A quote, a specific track? Something other then more or less conjecture? I am not sneak dissing, legitimate question

Uh... he did name a specific track.

No offense, but you're really just showing us how little you actually know about modern rap with your argument.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Uh... he did name a specific track.

No offense, but you're really just showing us how little you actually know about modern rap with your argument.

no offense but don't act like one track is enough to say Illmatic is still big. indeed i meant specific track from each of the rappers he dropped..

Joey Bada$$ def sounds influenced by Nas/Illmatic for one. And obviously that goes for Pro Era.

I'd say that bits of A$AP Mob ("Trillmatic"!), Flatbush Zombies, and their peers especially in NYC are def still influenced by it.

was there a quote?
for example i can quote three or four specific references from recent Game tracks repping Nas and Illmatic. see you think im trying to diss all the time when sometimes i am genuinely asking. maybe if you came off your rap high horse you could help a brother out

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

no offense but don't act like one track is enough to say Illmatic is still big. was there a quote?
for example i can quote three or four specific references from recent Game tracks repping Nas and Illmatic. see you think im trying to diss all the time when sometimes i am genuinely asking. maybe if you came off your rap high horse you could help a brother out

I said no offense and meant it.

You asked for a specific song RIGHT after he named a specific song ("Trillmatic" by A$AP Mob). It's just that by asking the question you showed that you wouldn't know a specific song anyway. Know what I mean?

Also, I know you love Game (he's like, one of the two hip hop artists you actually like and don't think is shit), but ... Game's been around forever, and he's doing great, but I kinda get the impression that you are only really into one kind of hip-hop, and it's a near 30-year old style, so I'm not sure you're much of an authority on what is or isn't influential or significant in genres hat aren't LA gangster rap from '88-'98.

Also, you're saying you can think of so many references to Nas right off the top of your head... from just one artist. That's a really persuasive argument AGAINST what Rob is saying.

I'm not on a high horse. But NR knows his hip hop. I've gone through his cd collection myself. It makes mine (the hip-hop section of mine) look like a one of those little children's libraries in the waiting room of a dentist's office, and I'm no slouch or yongblood either.

Really wasn't trying to be a dick. You've said yourself that you don't like much of anything that's new, and your taste in hip hop is by your own admission very limited. Nothing wrong with that, but it's probably best not to challenge someone like NR who's been collecting this shit obsessively -- from all over the spectrum of rap-- for a good 25+ years. *shrug*

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

no offense but don't act like one track is enough to say Illmatic is still big.

Hey man, that's not what I said. You're the one who asked for a track. I just pointed out that you didn't realize you'd already been given one. I never made the claim that one reference = evidence of Illmatic still being "big" ... I'm just saying, you had what you asked for before you asked for it. Don't turn that around on me and act like I was placing undue significance on something.

Stay on track, bro.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hey man, that's not what I said. You're the one who asked for a track. I just pointed out that you didn't realize you'd already been given one. I never made the claim that one reference = evidence of Illmatic still being "big" ... I'm just saying, you had what you asked for before you asked for it. Don't turn that around on me and act like I was placing undue significance on something.

Stay on track, bro.

i told you, i meant a track from each of the rappers he mentioned. see the edit please

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

i told you, i meant a track from each of the rappers he mentioned. see the edit please

Ok, well moving on then...

Here's literally the first thing that came up when I went to google and typed "references to Illmatic joey badass" (all I could think of was "World Domination" for Joey, but I wanted to answer your question)

Top 20 References to Illmatic

This is from 2014, in honor of the 20 year anniversary of the album, but it's a decent start. I didn't go through the whole list, but I saw rappers as recent as Casey Veggies, J Cole, Childish Gambino, Vic Mensa, Big Sean, G-Easy and figured this would serve until NR gets back.

When Kanye, Jay Z, Blu, Eminem, Odd Future, J Cole and gobs of other motherfuckers over 22 years have all mentioned your album, you've had a hell of an impact.

[Severian]

I also found a nice little piece published by the New Yorker around this time championing Illmatic as "special," even among the myriad classic albums of that era (Wu, Jay, Big, blah, blah, blah) but I figured... who the fuck cares what some shitass New Yorker writer thinks of a hip-hop album anyway? So I have omitted that.

And for the record, I actually am not that big of a Nas fan! I only like about ½ of his albums. Love his voice, loved him at his peak (he was one of the few rappers that made a young Nirvana-drunk Severian stand up and take notice of the intelligence and authenticity of his lyrics and delivery) but I kind of parted ways with him when I got really into Jay. By the time Jay dropped the Black Album, I thought it was damn generous to even call what happened between them a feud. Jay KO'd Nas, not with beef verses, but with increasingly good albums. Jay went up, Nas went down.

Point is, I'm not hanging on Nasir's dick. But there's no way to make a sane argument that Illmatic isn't a landmark album that changed hip-hop forever.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

cool that is a fair answer. i never said o agreed or disagreed with Rob and i also did say i was speculating an interpretation of what rob was saying as "illmatic isn't relevant today" which iis what i think he even originally said. hence why i asked for specific references from several contemporary rappers.

i have no strong opinion one way or the other and i was never dissing Nas btw

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

also i think you missed the point of why i mentioned Game, its because he is irrelevant so his references of Nas are somewhat an anachronism