[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I don't have the knowledge or vocabulary to describe stylistic differences but, to my ears anyway, Reena sounds like a band that's become a bit bored with itself while Starpower doesn't - and has creepy guitars.

I think that is just the same shit this whole western culture is full of: idealising the young age and living like there is no old age and death. I agree that there is difference (of course: there are twenty years between) but when Starpower has something young and angry, in Reena I think Sy has become mature, I think they have found the inner peace what they started to search in EVOL after that darkness and anger of former albums. And inner peace can also be the source of creativity, every artist who have found it don´t become boring AOR maker.

Well, maybe SY has become tired old men and woman, but that´s totally ok to me as long as they make good music, I mean great melodies and also could achieve something fresh in their albums.

I am still wondering why you keep on complaining about the quality of SY newest records, because you have choise not to buy them or even listen them. Or are you hanging here, because you still believe they will make a new Bad Moon Rising to you if they just want?

[evollove]

Because I'm in a good, optimistic mood, I'm more interested in the bands that got it together more than the bands that lost it.

But the only one I can think of at the moment is:

BLUR--Started off with a generic, disposable album and ended with the unique, enchanting Think Tank.

Oh, and Camper Van Beethoven. They never sucked, but Key Lime Pie is better than their debut.

Oh, and what about James Brown? His very early stuff is cookie-cutter soul; then he broke new ground, ground that is still being worked on today.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I am still wondering why you keep on complaining about the quality of SY newest records, because you have choise not to buy them or even listen them. Or are you hanging here, because you still believe they will make a new Bad Moon Rising to you if they just want?

No, I'm hanging here because it's free, open whenever I want it, and because I don't have the willpower to leave. I really couldn't care less about SY anymore so if I appear to complain about their newer albums, I'm probably just killing time waiting for someone to post something about football, or movies. You could take the SY out of SYG and it wouldn't make that much difference to me.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

You could take the SY out of SYG and it wouldn't make that much difference to me.

I think we all did that a long time ago, no?

[the ikara cult]

I love how this immediately became a "bands that used to rock but now suck" thread instead of what the actual thread title was.

Anyway, its hard to think of bands that were outright shit and then got really good. If you like a groups later work you tend to be able to find something in their earlier work to like even if it isnt as good. Especially in rock music where the songwriting and attitude doesnt tend to change greatly, its more the sense of vision and confidence (and production values) that do.

Anyway, I think Les Savy Fav got better as time went on, as did Arab Strap, but its still pretty hard.

Edit - Oneida are probably the best example i can think of in Rock music

[Starcat]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Fact! Can anybody say there are some facts in music? I think they´re opinions.

Can you describe me what those stylistic changes are? I think SY started with making some sense in the middle of chaos and noise (1st album, CIS, BMR) then added melodies (that I love the most) then (EVOL, Sister). In DDN they added elements of conventional rock and in Washing Machine they went back to more experimental style. The high point of experimentalism was NYC ghosts and I am glad they again took melodic elements back in Murray Street. So there has been changes, but I won´t call them stylistic changes.

SY can make album full of country-covers or even dull Chris Rea-style ballads if they like and it´s none of fucking business.

Every change you identified there IS a stylistic change, and each of those stylistic changes is a FACT about SY's music.

I'm not about to track down Kim and Thurston and demand that they make another Daydream Nation... But that doesn't mean I can't point out the changes that they've undergone and say why I didn't like some of them. You bemoan the fact that there's not enough SY in SYG, but dismiss this important debate about them. SY is still my favourite band, which is why I respect them enough to call them out when they make albums like Rather Ripped or songs like Superstar. As a fan, I have no guilt about making that my business.

[Mortte Jousimo]

So I think it´s me time to stop saying here that I still love SY. The wall of hate against SY nowdays seem to be so thick that I have nothing to do with it alone. Just make thousands of "I hate SY"-threads. But if someone else also want to say someday he´s still loving SY, I will also join in that.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

So I think it´s me time to stop saying here that I still love SY. The wall of hate against SY nowdays seem to be so thick that I have nothing to do with it alone. Just make thousands of "I hate SY"-threads. But if someone else also want to say someday he´s still loving SY, I will also join in that.

I think your main problem is accepting that not everyone is a hardcore Sonic Youth fan the way you are.

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

So I think it´s me time to stop saying here that I still love SY. The wall of hate against SY nowdays seem to be so thick that I have nothing to do with it alone. Just make thousands of "I hate SY"-threads. But if someone else also want to say someday he´s still loving SY, I will also join in that.

I still love sy.

[demonrail666]

 

[holy ghost]

man that girl is a fox but her band fucking sucks....

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

The Casualties always sucked. Nothing "crusty" about them. Just stupid fucks sporting mohawks ramblin' on about booze and "oi" in virtually every song. They aren't punk, they are tools. They've taken every iconic punk rock cliche...from lyrics to look, and have repetitively made themselves look like the morons that they are.

No, they became tools, they started out underground and crust enough, but I can equally agree with all that negativity you are spewing there, they most definitely such today and are also a boring cliche. But trying to do that same thing for 15 or 20 years can do that to ya

then again, the SubhumanS have done just fine staying relevant..

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I think your main problem is accepting that not everyone is a hardcore Sonic Youth fan the way you are.

My main problem is accepting that some of those who are not have some kind of obsession to say now and then here how SY has turned to shit. But of course it´s not just SY forum problem, I can very easily imagine what kind of atmosphere are in Metallica´s fan forum...

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by EVOLghost

I still love sy.

Yes, I know there are some of us and it´s great!

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by holy ghost

man that girl is a fox but her band fucking sucks....

agreeddddd 100%

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by holy ghost

man that girl is a fox but her band fucking sucks....

agreeddddd 100%

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

My main problem is accepting that some of those who are not have some kind of obsession to say now and then here how SY has turned to shit. But of course it´s not just SY forum problem, I can very easily imagine what kind of atmosphere are in Metallica´s fan forum...

It's probably true of all single band devoted fan sites. You're more likely to find outright SY devotion on say a Nirvana site, and vice versa. Although I also think it's something inherent within SY themselves: a certain flippancy about everything that maybe wouldn't be so prevalent on some other bands' sites. Saying all that, I do think you're taking the views of a handful of posters here as representing the board as a whole. There are plenty of members here just as devoted to SY as you, they just rarely bother to engage with what's going on in the Non-Sonics sections, or when they do, take it with a large pinch of salt. Ultimately I think everyone here can empathise with your love of SY, even if for some of us it's only a memory and for others not necessarily as blanket-form.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

It's probably true of all single band devoted fan sites. You're more likely to find outright SY devotion on say a Nirvana site, and vice versa. Although I also think it's something inherent within SY themselves: a certain flippancy about everything that maybe wouldn't be so prevalent on some other bands' sites. Saying all that, I do think you're taking the views of a handful of posters here as representing the board as a whole. There are plenty of members here just as devoted to SY as you, they just rarely bother to engage with what's going on in the Non-Sonics sections, or when they do, take it with a large pinch of salt. Ultimately I think everyone here can empathise with your love of SY, even if for some of us it's only a memory and for others not necessarily as blanket-form.

I think you don´t understand what my point has been in my writings. My point isn´t that somebody who don´t love SY as much as I can´t be here. The point is overall negativism that I think is allover internet. If I put here (last time it was in sonics "What do you think eternal as a final album"-thread) that I think the Eternal is great album, there is always somebody who have to put forward me "noo, it´s horrible". I would understand it, if this was "the Best Avantgarde music of this moment"-site, but this really is a Sonic Youth Gossib. I have felt, I just can´t be innocent, still SY-loving fan here. And I think I´m not alone. And I think it´s sick!

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I think you don´t understand what my point has been in my writings. My point isn´t that somebody who don´t love SY as much as I can´t be here. The point is overall negativism that I think is allover internet. If I put here (last time it was in sonics "What do you think eternal as a final album"-thread) that I think the Eternal is great album, there is always somebody who have to put forward me "noo, it´s horrible". I would understand it, if this was "the Best Avantgarde music of this moment"-site, but this really is a Sonic Youth Gossib. I have felt, I just can´t be innocent, still SY-loving fan here. And I think I´m not alone. And I think it´s sick!

I don't understand why you worry so much if someone doesn't appreciate SY’s latest output, or any of their other records for that matter, as much as you do.

On the internet music forums I visit it’s not often that I’ve witnessed genuine cases of one individual persuading another with what it is that they’re missing about a particular record or a band without retorting to off-handed comments or passive-aggressive rhetoric directly connected to an often questionable sense of superiority which maintains its pace purely because it’s hidden by the smoke and mirrors provided by not having an exchange face to face. Positive outcomes in that sort of scenario do occur, of course, and it’s great when you establish that sort of communication with someone you have never met in the flesh, but this sort of forum tends for the most part to attract too many dickheads who imagine they are winning a sort of self-esteem war by putting down someone’s music taste over theirs. And said dickheads often win that sort of futile war when they are constantly fed new victims who foolishly and naively believe that one’s own taste in music is something you constantly have to defend at all cost.

I used to think this was only true of some bored teen with no money to go out and no girlfriend, but after witnessing for the umpteenth time grown men falling out of friendship on more exposing websites like Facebook because of a divergence of opinion on the value of fucking Suede or Black Sabbath, this sort of behaviour is symptomatic of a breed of music fan differing vastly in age and with substantial similarities in their own cretinism.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I don't understand why you worry so much if someone doesn't appreciate SY’s latest output, or any of their other records for that matter, as much as you do.

On the internet music forums I visit it’s not often that I’ve witnessed genuine cases of one individual persuading another with what it is that they’re missing about a particular record or a band without retorting to off-handed comments or passive-aggressive rhetoric directly connected to an often questionable sense of superiority which maintains its pace purely because it’s hidden by the smoke and mirrors provided by not having an exchange face to face. Positive outcomes in that sort of scenario do occur, of course, and it’s great when you establish that sort of communication with someone you have never met in the flesh, but this sort of forum tends for the most part to attract too many dickheads who imagine they are winning a sort of self-esteem war by putting down someone’s music taste over theirs. And said dickheads often win that sort of futile war when they are constantly fed new victims who foolishly and naively believe that one’s own taste in music is something you constantly have to defend at all cost.

I used to think this was only true of some bored teen with no money to go out and no girlfriend, but after witnessing for the umpteenth time grown men falling out of friendship on more exposing websites like Facebook because of a divergence of opinion on the value of fucking Suede or Black Sabbath, this sort of behaviour is symptomatic of a breed of music fan differing vastly in age and with substantial similarities in their own cretinism.

Well, as a matter of fact, I really don´t care what most of the people think about SY latest input. And I know there always be idiots who just like to float with negativism in internet. My point is that why persons like demonrail who I think is quite regular here have also to join in that negativism? I think everybody knows here he don´t like the SY latest input. There has been mentions about many bands here I don´t like, but I haven´t mentioined anything because I know many respect them here.