[Rob Instigator]

BTW, I fucking LOVE the Gotham TV show, and cannot believe a network show has that much insanity and gore and viciousness while still being funny and detective-y like Batman. I wish they did a Batman movie like that. The bad guys on it are awesome, seeing Edward Nigma slowly become the Riddler, seeing Mr. Freeze, seeing how Oswald Cobblepot becomes the maniacal Penguin.. (penguin was always decades older than the Batman) plus all the hints of future baddies, like a young selina Kyle (who is funny and awesome) and a young Poison Ivy and hints at other of batman's rogue's gallery

[Rob Instigator]

I rag on Bale, but the Batman movies were far far better than these avengers films...

BUt Bane sucked. he sucked in the comics and he sucked in the film. I knew that one chick was ras al ghul's daughter 2 minutes into the film. that Bane part was boring.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

The only comic i read as a kid was Wolverine and i loved it. I used to watch Batman the Animated Series (warner bros) but never read the comics. Indeed if you ask me that cartoon still remains the all time best rendition of Batman
Better than Burton.. better than Nolan.. better than any of the other animated versions..

It was film noir. It was classy. It was well drawn and well produced. It was acted superbly. It is in my opinion the best American anime or animation ever and yes, i watched it recently and it was even BETTER than i remember.

[Rob Instigator]

It is good.

I just get fed up with the focus on "origin stories" in the films. Those are unnecessary. There is no need to spend an hour showing us how the Fantastic Four got their powers.

[Severian]

Yeah, origin stories get old.

Apparently the Batman solo flicks are going to have more of a flashback storyline. Obviously Jason Todd is already dead in BvS, so they'll probably en exploring the Death in the Family story and the Red Hood thing in the next solo film.

I just loved how the Nolan moved focused on the villains. They didn't need to have 500 bad guys like that awful Amazing Spider Man, or Spider-Man 3. The villains loomed so large in those films, and that's the best part of the Batman mythos. His relationship with Joker, Ra's, etc. how they become such major threats to the world...

[LifeDistortion]

One thing I'm looking forward to is that Suicide Squad looks to be the antithesis of Batman V Superman, everything in BVS is super serious, as was MOS. Suicide Squad went the complete opposite direction and is colorful, and fun, and chaotic. Probably good that we are getting both styles, but that, "let's take everything so seriously" take that may have worked for those Nolan films and is continuing with BVS gets old too. Hopefully by the time they get to Justice League they take a page from Suicide Squad and insert a little silliness and color back into Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

[Severian]

See, that's a double edged sword. Whenever things get corny band silly (which comic books often are, which is one of the reasons why the more serious/realistic thing is the go-to for so many cinematic adaptations), things get Fucking stupid really fast.

Nobody wants or needs a corny Batman. Or a silly Barman. Joel Shumacher gave us a corny, silly, ultra campy Batman and those movies (Batman Forevef, Batman and Robin) are te worst comic book films ever.

THE WORST.

So yeah everybody wants silly (or thinks they do) when things get too serious, but that's what leads to Toby Maguire disco dancing around like a Fucking asshole in Spider-Man 3.

Nonody every knows what they want. They always want what they're not getting. But Nolan's TDK trilogy was the most critically and commercially successful comic adaptation ever. No, it didn't make as much as the Avengers, but it also didn't have any entries that had terrible reviews like Age of Ultron. Captain Amerjca went dark for Winter Soldier because a lot of folks didn't even notice the first film, but now it's a huge franchise.

ALSO - did you happen to see he ORIGINAL trailer for Suicide Squad? It was like upsettingly melodramatic and dark. Really. It was originally branded as a "whoah, darkest of the dark!" thing, but the studio was worried about the responses so they put "Bohemian Rhapsody" in the next trailer and now people are into it.

It's all perspective. Man of Steel had a lot of funny moments actually. When he tied that trucker guys big rig up like a ribbon? That was as funny as Superman needs to be. That movie was just pulsating with energy and power. I didn't see it as dark, I saw it as exhilarating. Those scenes of Supes taking off in the Arctic? The grown cracking beneath his fists? It was really majestic! I just loved it!

You may think you want silly, but you don't. You DONT want Batman to have bat-nipples, or to be quibbling with Robin about who Poison Ivy was looking at. God damn that was AWFUL!

If you want silly, you've got Guardians of The Galaxy (which mixed silly and badass very well, actually) and Deadpool and Avengers bickering with eachother like spoiled kids. But that's not what anyone wants or needs from Batman.

[LifeDistortion]

Its a balance though. Take the characters seriously, but show the fun of it. Suicide Squad is full of fun characters, anti-heroes/villains sure, but fun. Nobody is saying they want Joker dancing to disco or Superman wearing a cod piece, they need to be true to the character the comic readers know, but at the same time there is a way to give us a fun, crowd-pleasing movie without going completely to one end of the spectrum or the other. I would argue the first Avengers struck that balance. Of course not everyone has the skill and talent of Joss Whedon, but they don't have to continue the trend of Nolan either, at least attempt that balance.

[Rob Instigator]

fuck "silly" I want FUN. Comic Book films should not be dystopian anti-hero nihilism! That shit is just the studios adding what they think works nowadays.

The Batman with the Joker (Nolan) was FUN, and not silly. It had scenes of humor that Batman always has, as his foes are inherently ridiculous. That is why I hated the Bane thing. That oaf was rife for ridicule and they treat him like he is a bigger enemy than Ras al ghul? sheeeiiiitt

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

fuck "silly" I want FUN. Comic Book films should not be dystopian anti-hero nihilism! That shit is just the studios adding what they think works nowadays.

The Batman with the Joker (Nolan) was FUN, and not silly. It had scenes of humor that Batman always has, as his foes are inherently ridiculous. That is why I hated the Bane thing. That oaf was rife for ridicule and they treat him like he is a bigger enemy than Ras al ghul? sheeeiiiitt

Exactly. This is why i much prefer Burton's Joker to Nolan's as i thought Nolan's was to psycho not enough fun. Nicholson hammed it up and made the joker menacing but sincerely funny (like haha funny and not that is fucked up shit funny)

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I think the first Burton Batman is a masterpiece. It is beautiful and yet menacing to look at prpduction wise.. it is dark without necessarily taking itself too seriously. It has sincere fun and laughs and yet is never campy. It touches on social issues without being a morality play. Ot is a prototypical Burton film. Could it be better? Of course. However personally while i enjoyed the Nolan flicks i didn't honestly resonate with them as actually being Batman movies.. rather they seemed like extremely dark action flick with occasional Batmanesque shit. It went a bit too dark for me.. too action packed and explosions.. and yes a bit to over the top at many times.. its like the equal but opposite of the Schumaker Batmans equally outlandish and over the top to the point of hyperbole but in opposite ways

[Severian]

The Nolan films are the equal opposite of the Shumacher ones. Shumacher was terrible in every way, TDK was great in every way. Perfectly terrible vs. perfectly perfect.

And the Joker is really the key ingredient here. That was simply one of the best performances I've ever seen. Certainly one of the greatest cinematic villains ever, if not the greatest. Won a goddamn Oscar! And deserved it!

They weren't really realistic. They were perfect examples of hyper realism. It worked. It was great. The Tim Burton films, for all their style, had very little substance. The stories were barely there. Though they did blow me away when I was young, and I still think Penguin was terrifying if not the least bit rooted in the actual character.

But back to Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice for a sec.. Maybe? Eh?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I disagree that Nolan versions were "terribly perfect".. i found them outlandish. Like Rob only the one with Joker is ok to me. I me let me explain, as a blockbuster flick? The nolan movies are definitely top shelf. But, as Batman? I just thought it went too outlandish in the blowing shit up and everything is dark and terrifying for Batman.. to me? Batman is dark but is more film noir less about horror. Batman is a bit classier then i think the Nolan flicks pulls off. As a movie Nolan films kick ass.. as specifically Batman movies? I don't particularly care for them.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I disagree that Nolan versions were "terribly perfect".. i found them outlandish. Like Rob only the one with Joker is ok to me. I me let me explain, as a blockbuster flick? The nolan movies are definitely top shelf. But, as Batman? I just thought it went too outlandish in the blowing shit up and everything is dark and terrifying for Batman.. to me? Batman is dark but is more film noir less about horror. Batman is a bit classier then i think the Nolan flicks pulls off. As a movie Nolan films kick ass.. as specifically Batman movies? I don't particularly care for them.

I guess I can see where you're coming from. I'm just a really big fan of Nolan's approach and method. Some folks think he's too Hollywood, but that wasn't always the case. I think he has excellent instincts, and yeah, I think he made an epic and hyper realistic (not truly realistic.... hyper realistic, as though you're having a panic attack while watching the films, and perceiving everything in crystalline detail, and feeling every overwhelming piece of perceptual stimulation) crime drama out of Batman, and that it was less about making a movie about Batman and more about making a story about the world Batman is supposed to (or would, if real) exist in.

Yeah, it leaves out a ton of the Batman character, and places all the focus on either the villains (Joker just ruled TDK, even the scenes he wasn't in) or the big (sometimes REALLY big) picture. In that sense, it could have been about anyone... Could have been a cop drama or a gangster drama... But I think that was kind of the point... To make a trilogy of Batman films that were NOT JUST FOR COMIC BOOK FANS.

So it probably wasn't the perfect film depiction of Batman. I still think it's the best one, but there was too much else going on for the actual personality of Batman to come through very well.

I actually think it was more of a Gotham City story. But whatever it did miss, I think it hit enough things pretty perfectly, and I think it's a success.

Really, Gordon is probably the main character of the series, if there is one. But yeah, it's not really "about" Batman. And there's a lot of the character that's left unexplored. But his vision was well rounded and direct and well executed and I think The Dark Knight is one of the best films ever. It's hard to even think about it as a "comic book" film. To me, it's more along the lines of The Godfather, or Heat, or the Departed. An ensemble piece. And an extraordinary film no matter how you slice it.

But I'll agree that as a "Batman film" it's a little light on Batman. Not just in screen time, but in general. Anyway I was still crying tears of joy when Batman Begins came out and I realized that I finally had a GOOD on screen adaptation of Batman again. Those Shumacher films were a real, REAL kick in the fucking balls.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

I guess I can see where you're coming from. I'm just a really big fan of Nolan's approach and method. Some folks think he's too Hollywood, but that wasn't always the case. I think he has excellent instincts, and yeah, I think he made an epic and hyper realistic (not truly realistic.... hyper realistic, as though you're having a panic attack while watching the films, and perceiving everything in crystalline detail, and feeling every overwhelming piece of perceptual stimulation) crime drama out of Batman, and that it was less about making a movie about Batman and more about making a story about the world Batman is supposed to (or would, if real) exist in.

Yeah, it leaves out a ton of the Batman character, and places all the focus on either the villains (Joker just ruled TDK, even the scenes he wasn't in) or the big (sometimes REALLY big) picture. In that sense, it could have been about anyone... Could have been a cop drama or a gangster drama... But I think that was kind of the point... To make a trilogy of Batman films that were NOT JUST FOR COMIC BOOK FANS.

So it probably wasn't the perfect film depiction of Batman. I still think it's the best one, but there was too much else going on for the actual personality of Batman to come through very well.

I actually think it was more of a Gotham City story. But whatever it did miss, I think it hit enough things pretty perfectly, and I think it's a success.

Really, Gordon is probably the main character of the series, if there is one. But yeah, it's not really "about" Batman. And there's a lot of the character that's left unexplored. But his vision was well rounded and direct and well executed and I think The Dark Knight is one of the best films ever. It's hard to even think about it as a "comic book" film. To me, it's more along the lines of The Godfather, or Heat, or the Departed. An ensemble piece. And an extraordinary film no matter how you slice it.

It wasn't so much as it had to "be more about Batman" so much as I think it should have "felt more like a Batman story" (e.g. more film noir less action adventure blowing shit up)...

Again as a MOVIE i quite enjoy the Nolan flicks, they are well written, well acted, and well produced. A bit long but not overwhelming.. HOWEVER the same way you are very partial and biased towards liking the Nolan flicks, because to me the ideal Batman is the Warner Bros Batman Animated Series I think it wasn't classy enough, a bit too gratituous in the violence and action, not enough mystery. Too scary and horror, not enough dark and foreboding. Too much blowing shit up, not enough actual story and character development...

They are still great. And still superior to everything but the first Tim Burton Batman, and really in many ways superior even to that. However for ME, I think the first Burton flick more closely pulls off the "classy" and "film noir" Batman.

I agree with you completely that Nolan was revisiting Batman in a more "contemporary" perspective in the context of film making, but that is precisely what kind of turns me off. No, it wasn't anywhere near the terrible shit that is X-men or Ironman or Superman or any of these other bullshit hero movies which frankly I couldn't sit through more than ten minutes of meanwhile I can easily sit through all 3 hours of the Nolan flicks... BUT again, I just don't feel like its "Batman" like you said, if we blacked out the actual Batman scenes it was essentially Die Hard

[Severian]

Good reviews of advanced screenings of BvS coming in on IMDB... Almost all 10/10's! Many saying it's better than The Dark Knight (it's not).

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2975590/reviews

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Severian

Good reviews of advanced screenings of BvS coming in on IMDB... Almost all 10/10's! Many saying it's better than The Dark Knight (it's not).

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2975590/reviews

Well here it's tanking:

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/batm...critic-reviews

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

bores me to death and Nolan is a hack money grabber and most of his movies are pseudo sci fi at best.

Snyder directed this film, not Nolan.

[pepper_green]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Snyder directed this film, not Nolan.

so what. does it matter? who cares about who directed a comic book movie you geeks want to see.

im taking it slow and soft and seeing who gets offended.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

have no interest in this at all. it's poison shallow Hollywood spitting it out. stop trying to live out yr prepubescent dreams. bores me to death and Nolan is a hack money grabber and most of his movies are pseudo sci fi at best.

You loved Interstellar if I remember correctly.

Pseudo sci-fi isn't really a value judgment, though, so you're largely correct. Most would categorize Inception as sci-fi, but it's really more of a psychological thriller. The Dark Knight movies would definitely fall (incorrectly) under the "sci-fi/fantasy" heading in most communities, but they're really not. They're crime films. Hyperrealism, action and adventure, cerebral crime drama.

Interstellar is most definitely science fiction though. Not pseudo, just sci-fi.

Sci-fi has produced a lot of great films though. Blade Runner? Saying something is "pseudo sci-fi" doesn't really even mean anything.