[max]

that would be just great, man.
really.
i'm bringing a shitload of demos for when i'll be in Chitown (my 4th time there)... i'll try to see if anyone is interested. kinda dreamlike but what the hell. i really prefer a shot in the dark like this - much better than getting the "label" treatment.

[atari 2600]

Chicago is fairly awesome. There are a lot of real art lovers there.
The government there has always been oppressive up until very recently, and as a reaction to that, there's just all these really reasonable, pragmatic and patient artists that live there that really do what they can to help when they can.

[max]

I have family there, some friends too, and I totally agree with you. People seems always genuinely interested in good stuff, and I've never had a single bad experience. People has always been very cool to me in there.
We'll see what happens...

[Everyneurotic]

i know max hates me and has me on ignore but...

...he should use this label's attention to get others to look at his band and get a better deal, if he wishes to go that route.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

i know max hates me and has me on ignore but...

...he should use this label's attention to get others to look at his band and get a better deal, if he wishes to go that route.

Stop hating Everyneurotic now haha! {quoted} I can never stick to ignore lists. I'm worthless and weak. I'm glad max put the chainsaw away. I remember that much.

By the way, I agree wholeheatedly but fear his options in Italy are (at least perceived to be) somewhat limited. I wonder how many companies with decent European (let alone U.S.) distribution there even are in Italy.

[max]

yeah, the chainsaw is long gone, but the buzzing sounds can still be heard. i don't hate anyone... sometimes i just despise with a passion.

it's a no-win situation when these labels here are the ones interested and there's limited options (as atari really well perceives) to what we can
choose. all i know is i am very glad that in around a week i'll earn my degree in sound engineering - a two years course of studies that has allowed me to reach the knowledge i needed to at least record and mix my stuff without too many headaches.

i'll get my hands on a new soundcard soon (the alesis IO 26, anyone knows about it btw? i have a TASCAM US122 and a US428 and they really kick ass but we need more input channels) and that way we'll get to do what we can. we have too many tracks ready and it's time to fix these into an album and start focusing on what's next...

[Dead-Air]

You remind me why we don't put our stuff out on a label (at least not anything larger than a fellow home taper who we hand the stuff to and who just does the rest). We even had Kramer approach us about recording us (not for Second Shimmy, but for hire), but can't find a label willing to advance that. Granted, I haven't looked that hard, because I'm not interested in the grind of having to tour to recoup expenses and all that shit (my band has member in 4 different cities currently!) Thank God for the internet and the ability to distribute stuff for free.

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by terminal pharmacy

that sounds like a terrible terrible contract

I agree.

If you guys have to pay for the recording etc and then this label can tell you to change it depending on their tastes and demands, then you may aswell just record it all yourself and shop around for another label as you're already half way there. They want you guys to do all the work and them sit back and reep the rewards. Shit label. Where's the benefit for you guys? I'm assuming they'll be paying for distribution and publisity etc, but I'm sure you guys could find someone to do that or even do it yourself. Doesn't seem like a good deal to me - I'd prefer to be independent and shop around.

[nicfit]

I think there are some nice labels here in italy.
Now, I also think those labels are so "little" (in terms of copies sold) that they won't help you pay the rent and so on, but they can give you some sort of "exposure".
I'm talking about things like www.wallacerecords.com or www.supernaturalcat.com and maybe a few others that, thanks to their "interesting" rosters, have some credit around europe and maybe in usa too, to an extent...
I think you don't want to deal with our nice italian frickin' fake indie scene ( and all the "hip" labels that cream their pants hearing clap your hands say yeah and architecture in helsikni)...Having an album out on a little label that gets some attention is better than having an album out "unnoticed" on a bigger label imo. The problem is, as always, money. If you want to make a living out of your passion for music, I really wouldn't know what suggestions to give. Furthermore, you live on an ISLAND! man, you are certainly not in an easy situation... I say, go to catania, talk to uzeda and steve albini, make him mention your band in an interview on pitchfork and you're served. ha ha.
Sorry, I ran out of serious thoughts. By the way, guys, I think it's hard in every country in the world, but here in italy the sitaution is scary to say the least. It's sad, there was such a nice "independent" movement going on in the early 90's, and now it's all dead. Not everything was THAT interesting, but it sure helped some bands getting the recognition/exposure they deserved. Nowadays all the youngsters listen to those fake poppunk bands and dress like avril lavigne (males too ha ha) and download the soundtracks of cell phones tv ads. Blaaah. I think there's the ABSOLUTE need for some "connections" outside Italy to stand a chance to get some recognition. And, you know, many decent italian bands start to get some credit here ONLY after a foreign magazine or band say nice things about them.

[max]

you totally nailed it, Nic! and coming from you - not only a strong (and very appreciated) supporter of what we did, but mostly a music lover - that should really depict the real state of things.

"indie" has always pissed me off as a term, but nowadays it's pure anger when i get to think there are fuckers out there just relying on the sole word to score some easy cash and get away with their bullshit.

independent - oh really?

but whatever - another useless rant in some pointless direction. i dunno. i've been awake the whole night and around 5.33 am i started wanting to throw up. so did i - right until now. it's up and down... i won't mess again with pizzas, coffee flavored ice cream and cold water. it surely doesn't help colitis, man.

[nicfit]

My two cents: the main problem is there is FAR TOO MUCH music out there. And there are no patterns to follow to get some recognition. Some bands get known just for their great live gigs (and I'd suggest to book as many dates as you can, word of mouth is a powerful ally), some put a song on their myspace and get signed just for that fuck^ng tune, some put a video on youtube ( ) and everyone goes nuts, bah, it's a true mess out there. I have a feeling that luck plays a big part in all this music biz insanity, and that's a bit of a shame, considering pure talent seems to be not enough even to get the slightest chance to be simply heard by a decent amount of people.. I think that a proper "deal" isn't the crucial issue, you could get rich selling cds with paypal ( maybe...), the real problem is : how to make people listen to my tunes rather than to the other millions of gazillions tunes available on myspace and such? A: dunno .
There are countless "side project" of members of "well known" bands ( no hint to SY members here) that are simply uninterestingly awful that get attention just for the names on the cover. I think the hardest step is the first one, i.e. : get people to know your band and your music. If they like what they hear, it's all up to the viral marketing stuff .

[terminal pharmacy]

just to clarify on the payment front, if you sign to a label say for example sony; they pay you an adavnce to allow you to record get your artwork done, film clips etc and then they reclaim the costs on record from sales over time and if they are lucky and you get the marketing support as well then you may just sell a few records.

[nicfit]

Originally Posted by terminal pharmacy

just to clarify on the payment front, if you sign to a label say for example sony; they pay you an adavnce to allow you to record get your artwork done, film clips etc and then they reclaim the costs on record from sales over time and if they are lucky and you get the marketing support as well then you may just sell a few records.

What if records' sales won't cover their initial outcomes? (naif question, sorry..)

[max]

that is true also, Terminal P... but I thought some "new, open minded" record label which goes around with an "indie" reputation could at least support the costs of the fucking PRESS!

I mean - all we ask for is just that, plain and simple: we get to record with our equipment and our money, the way we want; we get them a copy of the masters along with artwork; they print it out and put it in stores; we go around, play gigs, share royalties or what the fuck happens at that point (if we get to sell something) and deal is done.

that's all we ask for...

to answer Nic's question... what happens at that point is that the band owes the label money. as Albini said...

"The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige."

[terminal pharmacy]

then the record company loses its immediate outlay, however the bands do have to repay the debt unless the contract negotions were good at first sight, in the end you may aswell take a loan from a bank as far as i am concerned and hire a good engineer and producer, someone who work you know and respect.

[max]

here we go: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dkw-CP_WvXM - that's how we want it...

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by terminal pharmacy

then the record company loses its immediate outlay, however the bands do have to repay the debt unless the contract negotions were good at first sight, in the end you may aswell take a loan from a bank as far as i am concerned and hire a good engineer and producer, someone who work you know and respect.

That's why unless your band sells a shit load of albums on your debut, you're not bound to make much money back because you're paying the label back. Then if you don't make the units/cash then you get dropped, but I believe you don't have to pay the money back. This happens alot, apparently only 1 out of 10 bands actually "makes it".

[Danny Himself]

Originally Posted by max

I will be in Chicago on july 13th at the pitchfork fest. I'd love to meet Steve and ask him personally about this... but this seems unlikely. Who knows?

Thanx for the input man.

Email Steve, he almost always replies and he's the nicest guy.

steve@smellslikerecords.com

[max]

I think... I don't wanna bother him. I dunno... I'm quite sure he's full of stuff... to do. But thanx a lot for your advice man...

[Danny Himself]

Oh, I'm sure Steve wouldn't mind if you emailed him. I've emailed him about much less important things and he's always given me a friendly reply. This is a serious matter for you, so I think it would be good to get the advice of a musician who has had experience with labels.