SYG Book Club PM Vote - Page 2

noumenal · 05.24.2006, 11:29 AM

Missing 3 votes so far:

Ich bin gael
xpressway2yrskull
Laila

golden child · 05.24.2006, 03:22 PM

i wasnt gonna vote cause i dont really care
but if it matters...

GOGOL

Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski · 05.25.2006, 09:09 AM

I don't know if you counted me a part of this...

GOGOL

I like the song and I like the band

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 10:33 AM

fuck, i should have proposed the illiad. everyone should start from the beginning. and what a fucking awesome book. it makes sam peckinpah's movies look like children's flicks. but anyway, next time maybe

Glice · 05.25.2006, 10:52 AM

Iliad - is it as good as the Odyssey though? I read the Iliad somewhat grudgingly and slowly, the Odyssey I read quickly and thoroughly enjoyed it. I heartily endorse the rumours that the two were sired from different authors.

Actually, it might be the translation - what's the good one for th Iliad?

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 10:57 AM

shit, i dont know in english; my guess would be robert fitzgerald; though there are likely to be more recent "critical" editions, this is a poet's translation. yes it's a repetitive book, meant to be sung not read, and so it comes back over & over to the same motifs, but there are some passages that are out of this fucking world.

as a companion to this book i would suggest reading the first chapter of erich auerbach's "mimesis". yes it's an insane hegelian theory of the history of literature, trying to cover everything from the bible & homer to virginia woolf, but it's also a masterpiece of literary criticism (the good kind, the kind that makes you read), and a delightfully entertaining book on its own.

---

thinking about that again, i would rather do a "mimesis book club", chasing chapter after chapter of this glorious behemoth.

Пятхъдесят Шест · 05.25.2006, 02:21 PM

Alright so, what book won?

I'm going to the book store in a few hours.

Oh where, oh where can Noumenal be?

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 04:23 PM

I was sleeping. But I'm here now.

Voting is over in about 45 minutes. But, it's pretty much already set.

Voting looks like this:

1:|
2:|
3:|||||||
4:|||
5:|
6:|

3 has won, even if the remaining three vote for 4. That means Gogol. I hope this make everyone happy.

I think everyone should read the same translation. My bookstore has two, like I said earlier. I lean torwards the Pevear/Volonkonksy translation. Any ideas?

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 04:24 PM

GOGOL!!!! YES MOTHERFUCKER!!!! HAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!
GIVE IT UP FOR TRUE CLASSICS THAT SURVIVE STUPID FASHIONS.

now, cough cough, what's the edition you want? im heading to the library in minutes.

---

ps & thanks to jhumpa lahiri. you (jhumpa) know why.

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 04:33 PM

YO

LETS READ THE MODERN LIBRARY EDITION

ps -- gogol ganguli!!!!!!!

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 04:34 PM

Like I said earlier, I voted for #5.

I don't really get the fascination with Russian literature that a lot on this board seem to have. I also don't really like reading translations. I know that one has to, if one wants to be even a bit erudite. But I can't expect myself to learn every language well enough to read books in their original languages, but it just irritates me. Anyway, I love word play, puns, convoluted sentences, odd allusions, and so on and these only really work in the original language. 19th century Russian lit might work well in translation, but I can't imagine trying to translate Joyce, Nabokov, Faulkner, Pynchon, et al.

I'll take a look at the book and figure out what a reasonable amount would be to read in a week. What's the best day and time for discussion for you people?

P.S. I'm not trying to sound grumpy. I'm looking forward to reading the Gogol. I looked through it the other day and I think it's going to be really fun. I've liked all the Russian lit I've ever read, but it's just not directly up my alley.

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 04:35 PM

read jhumpa lahiri's "the namesake". then you'll want to.

oh and quit whining

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 04:40 PM

ANYWAY, the Modern Library edition was translated by Bernard Guerney.

This is fine with me. Any objections?

BTW, on the cover of the papernack edition is a quote by Nabokov (my hero of the moment): "An extraordinarily fine piece of work." If Nabokov likes it, it has to be good! I'm not sure if he's referring to the translation or the novel itself, though.

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 04:41 PM

hell yes it is. both. you don't propose we read the illiad in ancient greek do you?

---
ps & modern library is available everywhere. including my shittown. i just booked the town's library copy (town library's copy? fucking english language). oh, available everywhere except for dunceville, where kim c not g lives-- i hope she can get a ticket out fast!

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

hell yes it is. both. you don't propose we read the illiad in ancient greek do you?

Haha, no. I'd like to, but...... I have a friend that read Don Quixote in Spanish, but he was a Spanish major.

I'm taking a German reding class this summer and German seems like it'll be my main second language other than the Latin I took in high school. But I think I'm doomed to read everything in English translations, no matter how much I bitch about it.

MODERN LIBRARY it is.
MODERN LIBRARY it is.
MODERN LIBRARY it is.
MODERN LIBRARY it is.
MODERN LIBRARY it is.

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 04:47 PM

From Wikipedia:

"Vladimir Nabokov, in his 1944 study of Gogol, Nikolai Gogol, rejected the commonly held view of Dead Souls as a reformist or satirical work. Nabokov regarded the plot of Dead Souls as unimportant and Gogol as a great writer whose works skirted the irrational and whose prose style combined superb descriptive power with a disregard for novelistic clichés. In the character of Chichikov, the protagonist of the novel, Nabokov found all the attributes of poshlost', (a Russian word not precisely translatable into English) meaning the "vulgarity" of the bourgeousie - with overtones of middle-class pretentiousness, fake significance and philistinism. True, Chichikov displays a most extraordinary moral rot, but the whole idea of buying and selling dead souls is, to Nabokov, ridiculous on its face; therefore, the provincial setting of the novel is a most unsuitable backdrop for any of the progressive, reformist or Christian readings of the work."

I'll be reading this Nabokov book too, if it's in English.

Off to the library!

qprogeny79 · 05.25.2006, 05:14 PM

"they keep calling me . . . keep on calling me . . ."

is this one of those two-bazillion page russian epics like war and peace or anna karenina? i'm hoping it's not.

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 05:39 PM

No, it's not too long. Long enough I guess. It's pretty long.

I just checked out the book by Nabokov. On page 61, he has this to say:

"The old translations of Dead Souls into English are absolutely worthless and should be expelled from all public and university libraries....a completely new translation of Dead Souls , made by B.G. Guerney....is an extraordinarily fine piece of work."

So that's where the quote is from. He's talking about the translation.

A newer translation might have some benefits, but I think sticking with Guerney will be fine.

!@#$%! · 05.25.2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

"they keep calling me . . . keep on calling me . . ."

is this one of those two-bazillion page russian epics like war and peace or anna karenina? i'm hoping it's not.

i'd rather read a bazillion words by a gogol translator than 5 words by ayn rand

noumenal · 05.25.2006, 05:44 PM

Nabokov is notoriously a huge bitch when it comes to translations of Russian novels. The first couple chapters of Ada, or Ardor are great proof of this:

http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/ada/index.htm

What a great fuckin' book.

05.24.2006, 11:29 AM	#21
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	Missing 3 votes so far: Ich bin gael xpressway2yrskull Laila
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.24.2006, 03:22 PM	#22
golden child expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,672	i wasnt gonna vote cause i dont really care but if it matters... GOGOL __________________ blind
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 09:09 AM	#23
Rupert 'Stiles' Stilinski children of satan Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Japan Posts: 345	I don't know if you counted me a part of this... GOGOL I like the song and I like the band
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 10:33 AM	#24
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	fuck, i should have proposed the illiad. everyone should start from the beginning. and what a fucking awesome book. it makes sam peckinpah's movies look like children's flicks. but anyway, next time maybe
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 10:57 AM	#26
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	shit, i dont know in english; my guess would be robert fitzgerald; though there are likely to be more recent "critical" editions, this is a poet's translation. yes it's a repetitive book, meant to be sung not read, and so it comes back over & over to the same motifs, but there are some passages that are out of this fucking world. as a companion to this book i would suggest reading the first chapter of erich auerbach's "mimesis". yes it's an insane hegelian theory of the history of literature, trying to cover everything from the bible & homer to virginia woolf, but it's also a masterpiece of literary criticism (the good kind, the kind that makes you read), and a delightfully entertaining book on its own. --- thinking about that again, i would rather do a "mimesis book club", chasing chapter after chapter of this glorious behemoth.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 02:21 PM	#27
Пятхъдесят Шест invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA Posts: 3,063	Alright so, what book won? I'm going to the book store in a few hours. Oh where, oh where can Noumenal be?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:23 PM	#28
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	I was sleeping. But I'm here now. Voting is over in about 45 minutes. But, it's pretty much already set. Voting looks like this: 1:\| 2:\| 3:\|\|\|\|\|\|\| 4:\|\|\| 5:\| 6:\| 3 has won, even if the remaining three vote for 4. That means Gogol. I hope this make everyone happy. I think everyone should read the same translation. My bookstore has two, like I said earlier. I lean torwards the Pevear/Volonkonksy translation. Any ideas?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:24 PM	#29
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	GOGOL!!!! YES MOTHERFUCKER!!!! HAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!! GIVE IT UP FOR TRUE CLASSICS THAT SURVIVE STUPID FASHIONS. now, cough cough, what's the edition you want? im heading to the library in minutes. --- ps & thanks to jhumpa lahiri. you (jhumpa) know why.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:33 PM	#30
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	YO LETS READ THE MODERN LIBRARY EDITION ps -- gogol ganguli!!!!!!!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:34 PM	#31
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	Like I said earlier, I voted for #5. I don't really get the fascination with Russian literature that a lot on this board seem to have. I also don't really like reading translations. I know that one has to, if one wants to be even a bit erudite. But I can't expect myself to learn every language well enough to read books in their original languages, but it just irritates me. Anyway, I love word play, puns, convoluted sentences, odd allusions, and so on and these only really work in the original language. 19th century Russian lit might work well in translation, but I can't imagine trying to translate Joyce, Nabokov, Faulkner, Pynchon, et al. I'll take a look at the book and figure out what a reasonable amount would be to read in a week. What's the best day and time for discussion for you people? P.S. I'm not trying to sound grumpy. I'm looking forward to reading the Gogol. I looked through it the other day and I think it's going to be really fun. I've liked all the Russian lit I've ever read, but it's just not directly up my alley.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:35 PM	#32
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	read jhumpa lahiri's "the namesake". then you'll want to. oh and quit whining
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:40 PM	#33
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	ANYWAY, the Modern Library edition was translated by Bernard Guerney. This is fine with me. Any objections? BTW, on the cover of the papernack edition is a quote by Nabokov (my hero of the moment): "An extraordinarily fine piece of work." If Nabokov likes it, it has to be good! I'm not sure if he's referring to the translation or the novel itself, though.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:41 PM	#34
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	hell yes it is. both. you don't propose we read the illiad in ancient greek do you? --- ps & modern library is available everywhere. including my shittown. i just booked the town's library copy (town library's copy? fucking english language). oh, available everywhere except for dunceville, where kim c not g lives-- i hope she can get a ticket out fast!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 04:47 PM	#36
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	From Wikipedia: "Vladimir Nabokov, in his 1944 study of Gogol, Nikolai Gogol, rejected the commonly held view of Dead Souls as a reformist or satirical work. Nabokov regarded the plot of Dead Souls as unimportant and Gogol as a great writer whose works skirted the irrational and whose prose style combined superb descriptive power with a disregard for novelistic clichés. In the character of Chichikov, the protagonist of the novel, Nabokov found all the attributes of poshlost', (a Russian word not precisely translatable into English) meaning the "vulgarity" of the bourgeousie - with overtones of middle-class pretentiousness, fake significance and philistinism. True, Chichikov displays a most extraordinary moral rot, but the whole idea of buying and selling dead souls is, to Nabokov, ridiculous on its face; therefore, the provincial setting of the novel is a most unsuitable backdrop for any of the progressive, reformist or Christian readings of the work." I'll be reading this Nabokov book too, if it's in English. Off to the library!
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 05:14 PM	#37
qprogeny79 stalker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: newport news/charlottesville, va, usa. Posts: 508	"they keep calling me . . . keep on calling me . . ." is this one of those two-bazillion page russian epics like war and peace or anna karenina? i'm hoping it's not. __________________ obligatory intellectual quote: "all men by nature desire to know." --aristotle obligatory myspace page link. obligatory myspace band page link.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 05:39 PM	#38
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	No, it's not too long. Long enough I guess. It's pretty long. I just checked out the book by Nabokov. On page 61, he has this to say: "The old translations of Dead Souls into English are absolutely worthless and should be expelled from all public and university libraries....a completely new translation of Dead Souls , made by B.G. Guerney....is an extraordinarily fine piece of work." So that's where the quote is from. He's talking about the translation. A newer translation might have some benefits, but I think sticking with Guerney will be fine.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.25.2006, 05:44 PM	#40
noumenal expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,855	Nabokov is notoriously a huge bitch when it comes to translations of Russian novels. The first couple chapters of Ada, or Ardor are great proof of this: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/ada/index.htm What a great fuckin' book.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|