[Rob Instigator]

arizona will be upset when Los Tigres Del Norte can't come to jam their cumbia!

[space]

my brother lives in Nogales, for the right price, I could find them a nice tunnel.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

"We'll show those damn government officials who's boss! We won't entertain the general public in their state! TAKE THAT YOU FASCIST BIGOTS!!!....oh wait."


Why don't they just scalp someone instead? Now that's how you get a message across.

[nicfit]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eugene Felikson

Why don't they just scalp someone instead? Now that's how you get a message across.

 

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by sizzlemeat

YES the police profile, and it's fucked up and gross, but when the law passes they need to ask any and everybody they stop about there citizinship status.

Profiling happens everyday and everywhere, there's NO denying it. The point I'm trying to make is that just about every state along the northern and southern borders have laws against illegal border crossing, and I'm sure use profiling to pull off some of their stings or whatever. I'm not against the idea and I'm not supporting the bill, I am however clearing up the idea that people seem to have which is that everyone in the state needs to carry a passport, and that racial turmoil is rampant, and Rodney King beatings are happening on every corner.

It's an election year and everybody has an agenda. Latinos are going to far outnumber every other race in america in the coming years, and crapping all over AZ because of this law is the perfect opportunity for politicians to woo their future voters.

a) do you fucking honestly believe that the cops are going to ask EVERYONE about citizenship? I hardly believe that they will not simply harrass and profile latinos and asians in this regard, and obviously you don't get profiled very often or you might be a bit more empathetic.

b) just because profiling happens, doesn't mean we should accept or promote it. they used to lynch niggers and cremate jews too

c) again, the LAW HASN'T EVEN WENT INTO EFFECT YET! wait a year or two and see the results, you will have racism rampant in law enforcement..

d) so what if latinos become the largest group, why does that threaten you? America is a pluralistic society, why should white people have all the fun?

Originally Posted by tesla69

Its very strange to me why people feel its wrong to enforce the borders.

Borders are absolute and utter bullshit imaginary lines, why do people feel the need to arbitrarily enforce them? Fuck that, free borders for all, human migration is the constant factor of human existence and evolution, lets all face reality here.

Originally Posted by Georgekrz

to be fair he has a point. Federal agents right now do things like raids on businesses, pulling over greyhound busses and so forth, asking people for papers and "illegals" get arrested on the spot. I'm Polish and you read stories of people getting arrested somewhere upstate NY on a weekly basis. Now all of a sudden AZ is a big deal, well protest the federal gov't and what they are doing too if you want to be consistent on the issue.

As to the boycott, you could go either way are you making more impact by boycotting or by going there making a concert to support the immigrants?

But the difference is that those are FEDS, not local cops, and there is a LOT less feds patroling then local cops, so it is not a daily issue. Local cops should not be enforcing international issues like immigration. It is a conflict of interest. They have this problem up near Santa Barbara, where local PD are also ICE agents, and they have a SHITLOAD of problems with profiling and racism because of it. No body should be harrassed by the police because of nationality status, this shit is like the fucking Apartheid Dumpasses.. I don't even like having to give the cops ID, let alone to be asked for my social security card.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Europe has open borders at nearly every entrance to every single country.

oh yeah, I forgot, those people are not BROWN.

amen amen.

any of you who honestly believe that the cops will be fair in this and only ask for immigration status after a crime are being hopelessly naive. Here in LA it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE for a peace officer to conduct an unwarranted felony stop (ie, to hand cuff and place a person in their car when they stop you just even to say hello) and yet in the past year they have NEVER NOT felony stopped me, nor any of the other folks I know. They simply break the law, and what can we do? Complain? No, we just sit in handcuffs in the back of the car for no reason, patiently praying and waiting to be released and forget how much we have just been humiliated..

[Rob Instigator]

the biggest lie is that the Police are there to fight crime.

it is BULLSHIT

The police are there to POLICE/CONTROL the population. They arrive after crime is commited and their reports are what justifies insurance companies payouts.

[sizzlemeat]

[quote=SuchFriendsAreDangerous]a) do you fucking honestly believe that the cops are going to ask EVERYONE about citizenship? I hardly believe that they will not simply harrass and profile latinos and asians in this regard, and obviously you don't get profiled very often or you might be a bit more empathetic.

b) just because profiling happens, doesn't mean we should accept or promote it. they used to lynch niggers and cremate jews too

c) again, the LAW HASN'T EVEN WENT INTO EFFECT YET! wait a year or two and see the results, you will have racism rampant in law enforcement..

d) so what if latinos become the largest group, why does that threaten you? America is a pluralistic society, why should white people have all the fun?



A. I'm not going to sit here and lie and claim that I get stopped and harassed, thrown into cop cars, threatened with deportation and the such when it doesn't happen to me! I HAVE however had to deal with individual people's sneering, judgemental, and unpleasant racist attitudes and totally know how it feels to be judged by the color of my skin. So yes, I can feel for others who are hispanic.

B. How radical, cool, and "ironic" of you to use the word "nigger" to get a point across. THAT'S offensive. Sarah Silverman fan right?

C. Read the bill! There are too many ways that Law Enforcement can come under fire with law-suits under SB-17 for blatant and obvious profiling. It's been made very clear that any and everybody has to be asked, everybody has to be profiled, and if you have a witness and not everybody in a stopped vehicle is asked about their status you have grounds for a lawsuit saying the police didn't profile you basically and a number of enforcement agencies are paranoid of the chances of being sued. And at this point AZ knows the government is keeping a close watchful eye on what's going on here, and I highly doubt anything will get out of hand. That's even suggesting that anything happens because LUCKILY nobody with pushing power supports the bill.

D. Hello! I'm freaking MEXICAN! It doesn't threaten me, I think it's fine I was simply stating a FACT and not even in a negative light. Jesus Christ dude. The fact that you read what I wrote and automatically flip it around to somehow be racist totally kills your credibility to me because it just makes you look paranoid and ready to pounce on anything you can take out of context and turn in your favor.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by sizzlemeat

C. Read the bill! There are too many ways that Law Enforcement can come under fire with law-suits under SB-17 for blatant and obvious profiling. It's been made very clear that any and everybody has to be asked, everybody has to be profiled, and if you have a witness and not everybody in a stopped vehicle is asked about their status you have grounds for a lawsuit saying the police didn't profile you basically and a number of enforcement agencies are paranoid of the chances of being sued. And at this point AZ knows the government is keeping a close watchful eye on what's going on here, and I highly doubt anything will get out of hand. That's even suggesting that anything happens because LUCKILY nobody with pushing power supports the bill.

D. Hello! I'm freaking MEXICAN! It doesn't threaten me, I think it's fine I was simply stating a FACT and not even in a negative light. Jesus Christ dude. The fact that you read what I wrote and automatically flip it around to somehow be racist totally kills your credibility to me because it just makes you look paranoid and ready to pounce on anything you can take out of context and turn in your favor.

I'm sorry if I came off strong here, but it seems clear you still don't see it, and its a shame really, because as you said, your a mexican, and this will most definitely affect you in a negative way. We in Rastafari are radically involved in liberation and social justice, and sometimes folks need to be shaken up, just as Marcus Garvey shook up the complacency and division of 'Negros' to empower and enlighten them under the banner of unity is strength. Its very simple, if your not against this bill, you are for it, even if only inadvertently. I am being rather forward on this thread to try to bully you into a corner to have to really reflect and react to the bill, really challenge you to take it to heart, and hopefully see the light, but hey life is life, see what you see, sorry if your offended, but truly some of your posts offended me and so I reacted accordingly.

Your posts about law enforcement have been hopelessly naive, perhaps I am rather jaded by my extremely negative experiences with law enforcement, that is my bias, but bias does not necessarily exonerate the bullshit of crooked cops. Seriously, the cops are not going to universally enforce this law, they are not going to ask white kids if they are citizens. Its very simple, cops are above the law, who is going to sue who? Poor people can't sue shit, we just get treated like shit. I can only speak the real on this, and nothing but. Cops are crooked and if you give them crooked ass racist laws like this one, you can only expect crooked ass racist behavior. As a mexican you should move not just to see sonic youth, but to save your ass from the kind of harrassment that others get all the time, welcome to the world of the low life my friend. The difference is fuck ups like me almost deserve to get harassed, but when they start doing the same thing not because of how you dress or what you smoke, but simply because of the color of your skin, then that shit is fucked up beyond explanation, and honestly if you can't see it, then I HOPE these bitch ass cops start fucking with so you can

[amerikangod]

Originally Posted by space

OP's name reminds me of how much I like street-tacos.

Fuck. I'd kill for a street taco right now.

And just for the record, I'm down for boycotting the entire southwest, if only because your harsh sun makes all of your women look like burnt-up husks by the age of 30.

[mysonichaircut]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Europe has open borders at nearly every entrance to every single country.

oh yeah, I forgot, those people are not BROWN.

Sure they are brown. And evan black. There are no borders within Europe. But - they established a new border around europe, to keep you guys out. Thousands of people are dying every year while trying to get in. Many of them are deported to camps in collaborating states like algeria. So, the europeans do the same to africans and others as the us-americans do to mexicans.

but sonic youth havent boycotted europe yet ... hm. And they havent boycotted the us either! So why are they boycotting AZ? Because they care? Dont believe the hype ...

[Rob Instigator]

africa is not directly connected to europe by over 1500 miles of border.

the US and mexico are.

[mysonichaircut]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

africa is not directly connected to europe by over 1500 miles of border.

the US and mexico are.

africa is directly connected to europe by delievering their commodities to europe for free. thats why 36 million die every year by famine, and thats why they try to go to europe, where the white waste the commodities of the black. Furthermore, we have what we call the "new colonisation" in africa right now: the big european chains are cultivating their products for the european market in africa and let the africans work on the european farms for less the 1 Euro a day. so, in that sense, the connection cant be more directly. And thats the same sort of "connection" between US and mexico. The border isnt the point, the border is only in focus because of the economic "relationship". What the US do in south-america is what the europeans do in africa.

[jetengine]

Boycotting various jurisdictions for sociopolitical reasons does nothing except alienate and infuriate certain segments of an act's fan base. Take Ted Nugent on one hand and Sir Paul McCartney and Morrisey on the other: their various extreme (and ill-informed) stands on issues surrounding hunting and animal rights have done nothing except cost them large portions of their fan bases in countries like Canada and the US.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by mysonichaircut

africa is directly connected to europe by delievering their commodities to europe for free. thats why 36 million die every year by famine, and thats why they try to go to europe, where the white waste the commodities of the black. Furthermore, we have what we call the "new colonisation" in africa right now: the big european chains are cultivating their products for the european market in africa and let the africans work on the european farms for less the 1 Euro a day. so, in that sense, the connection cant be more directly. And thats the same sort of "connection" between US and mexico. The border isnt the point, the border is only in focus because of the economic "relationship". What the US do in south-america is what the europeans do in africa.

true. much agreed.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Borders are absolute and utter bullshit imaginary lines, why do people feel the need to arbitrarily enforce them? Fuck that, free borders for all, human migration is the constant factor of human existence and evolution, lets all face reality here...

Like it or not borders and countries are realities. A government must control its orders for social and economic reasons. I saw on the news once a woman at a pro-illegal immigration rally and she said something about "Everyone being able to live their American dream" well that's really nice but absolutely idiotic - you think the US can support 6 billion people?

You also need to have a single language.

Why do we feel the need to enforce them? well, there is a deep genetic memory of neighboring tribes laying waste to your land and village, killing all the men and making slaves of the women and children.

[Rob Instigator]

the US uses 50% of all the world's resources.
we make more $$$ as a country than 75% of the world put together.

we could afford to take over every other country and run it like the 50 current states.
there is no reason to stop at 50. it is an arbitrary number. AMake mexico a sate, puerto rico, canada, and then start adding all of the caribbean and south and central america. then it would truly be the United States of america.
just a crazy thought

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by mysonichaircut

Sure they are brown. And evan black. There are no borders within Europe. But - they established a new border around europe, to keep you guys out. Thousands of people are dying every year while trying to get in. Many of them are deported to camps in collaborating states like algeria. So, the europeans do the same to africans and others as the us-americans do to mexicans.

but sonic youth havent boycotted europe yet ... hm. And they havent boycotted the us either! So why are they boycotting AZ? Because they care? Dont believe the hype ...

exactly.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

africa is not directly connected to europe by over 1500 miles of border.

the US and mexico are.

as it was pointed out above, Africans are the 'mexicans' and the 'illegals' of Europe, and in reality they often get treated even shittier!

Originally Posted by tesla69

Like it or not borders and countries are realities. A government must control its orders for social and economic reasons. I saw on the news once a woman at a pro-illegal immigration rally and she said something about "Everyone being able to live their American dream" well that's really nice but absolutely idiotic - you think the US can support 6 billion people?

You also need to have a single language.

Why do we feel the need to enforce them? well, there is a deep genetic memory of neighboring tribes laying waste to your land and village, killing all the men and making slaves of the women and children.

You are mixing to many things, and even bordering on eugenics with that one

Single language? Nonsense, that is very amero-centric of you to say, most countries speak several languages and things work out just fine, in fact that is precisely why the US has no official language in the first place. Be careful telsa, you are very much bordering on being a reactionary and not a revolutionary on this issue, and that is very surprising to me considering your usual postings (which I often enjoy and contribute towards)

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the US uses 50% of all the world's resources.
we make more $$$ as a country than 75% of the world put together.

we could afford to take over every other country and run it like the 50 current states.
there is no reason to stop at 50. it is an arbitrary number. AMake mexico a sate, puerto rico, canada, and then start adding all of the caribbean and south and central america. then it would truly be the United States of america.
just a crazy thought

speak the real.

[Magic Wheel Memory]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Be careful telsa, you are very much bordering on being a reactionary and not a revolutionary on this issue

Is that how it works? You decide that you are either a reactionary or a revolutionary, and then you automatically adopt the accepted views of one side or the other? What's wrong with forming an opinion on each issue individually? What's wrong with independent, intelligent thought?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Magic Wheel Memory

Is that how it works? You decide that you are either a reactionary or a revolutionary, and then you automatically adopt the accepted views of one side or the other? What's wrong with forming an opinion on each issue individually? What's wrong with independent, intelligent thought?

revolutionary= independent, intelligent.

[mysonichaircut]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Single language? Nonsense, that is very amero-centric of you to say, most countries speak several languages and things work out just fine, in fact that is precisely why the US has no official language in the first place.

Exactly.

I am pretty much embarrassed about what tesla says, at least not because he is obviously not a revolutionar, but because what he says is not true. First, The US consume much more from other countreys as they give. Second, they have 90x more money as the whole world ever could spend. Both facts finally caused the financial crises. The Economy of the US is based on exploiting the rest of the world. They installed terroristic governnments in most of the south american countreys (and not only there) and made contracts with them on bringing the goods to the US.

In this sense you could say: yes, they need a man with a gun standing at the border, since someone has to have an eye on the booties.

Though - i know, what tesla says is what many think, and therefore its good to have this opinion here.

At least boycotting AZ seems to have a positive effect, if many people start to discuss the questions we do.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

AMake mexico a sate, puerto rico, canada, and then start adding all of the caribbean and south and central america. then it would truly be the United States of america.
just a crazy thought

Something like this. I see tanks roling to canada right now ... no, i know what you want to say.

You want to know why mexicans come to the US? Start with this little story:

http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009...ly-cooked.html
http://www.globalexchange.org/countr...acyReport.html

then the more bigger problem:

http://www.economicpopulist.org/cont...-compete-china

and then the whole picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance..._trade_deficit

You must know what a "trade-deficit" is though, to understand the ideotism in the imagination of tesla about the "us supporting" someone. In fact, its the other way: Mexico is supporting the US, and so is the rest of the world. Not volentarily. Thats why Mexico is poor now. And some brave men want to get back what the US-Americans stole from them. Thats why we need a man with a gun in AZ.

edit: here are the data for the transfer of goods between US and Mexico:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html

For those who dont know what they mean: they say, that mexico is supporting the US with about 60 billion a year - not volentarily, but because the us dont pay what they take.

edit2: maybe you want to know exactly about the economic relationship between US and any other countrey? Choose a countrey from this list:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/index.html

All data are from the US-Government itself