[Keeping It Simple]

Think of the millions of trees saved from being cut down and pulped into paper to make books. Plus after awhile books become a health hazard, turning smelly, tatty and dirty. Yuck.

[floatingslowly]

I just gave away a giant sack (not stack) of books to a friend.

Stealin' from the mouths of industry babes!

Just like used vidya-games.

[Rob Instigator]

Only if you do nto know how to take care of the books.

Think of the millions of tons of toxic waste and hazardous materials generated by China making your ipad and kindle and other devices with no regards for environmental safety, or the damage done by mining for rare-earth metals, not to mention the millions of tons of used electronics thrown away in the trash. mercury poisoning the land and water due to gold mining, to make your precious circuit boards.

[evollove]

Seriously. You can grow a new tree. Can't grow a new river.

[Rob Instigator]

Most of the deforestation of rainforest around the world is not for paper, or for wood use, but to clear land for cattle, so that McDonalds can sell a trillion hamburgers around the world, at it's 25,000+ stores. Add BK, Jack in the box, Wendy's, and every other burger chain, then add the many restaurants that serve beef, and you have insanity!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Yes but the music industry robs artists WAY more than downloading ever could

Originally Posted by evollove

Book publishers suck as much demon-dick as record companies. Sorry, but true.

two big differences:

one, artists enter deals with publishers voluntarily. hence, it may be a bad hookup, but it isn't rape.

two, what you guys are saying is like claiming that because women are raped "in the congo," it's okay for you to just smack them around a little. "hey, at least it's not rape like those guys do!" (which is false in the first place, as publishing deals are voluntary agreements).

three, and last, a digital economy allows authors (i say this in general for music, books, etc) to self-publish. piracy actually encourages the triumph of big business-- "sign with us and we'll take care of everything, lawyers, chinese pirates, plagiarists, etc."

really, there is no good in what you do. it's not the 90s anymore. go get your books from jenthebenn and your music from slavo or mbv.

[floatingslowly]

Thanks to digital rights management, you do not "own" books read through Kindle, you "lease" the right to read them, at Amazon's discretion to discontinue this right without notice.

Welcome to the Age of Information.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

two, what you guys are saying is like claiming that because women are raped "in the congo," it's okay for you to just smack them around a little.

Look again at a sample of my book collection. I marry more than I smack.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

Look again at a sample of my book collection. I marry more than I smack.

doesn't matter, and it's not the right analogy anyway-- the point i'm trying to raise (and i'm not a cop so you're of course free to do as you wish) is that pirating digital media does fuck things up for others, regardless of whatever rationalizations we make for ourselves.

and don't get me wrong--- some of my best friends are pirates (ha!) and scofflaws of all sorts--- but the moral argument for consumer media piracy is no longer defensible in this century. you wanna argue for something like wikileaks, you might have my support-- but not for music, movies, books, etc., that can be legitimately obtained.

in other words, i don't care about your actual actions-- only your moral reasoning, ha ha ha.

[evollove]

1. I look around my room and see thousands of dollars worth of book purchases, so I get a little resentful to be accused of contributing to the decline of an industry.

2. But you're right. Sort of. Over the past week or so, by coincidence I've heard a number of filmmakers I respect talking about how dire the film industry has become. With profits so low, studios aren't taking chances. Mediocre blockbusters are all we get, until Oscar season. Woody has to go to Europe. Fucking Scorcese can't do what he wants. etc.

And I do wonder if stealing Dude Where's My Car in some way eventually contributes to the lack of small quality films.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by evollove

1. I look around my room and see thousands of dollars worth of book purchases, so I get a little resentful to be accused of contributing to the decline of an industry.

your paper books weren't shoplifted though, right? all i'm saying is the same ethics apply to e-books.

Originally Posted by evollove

2. But you're right. Sort of. Over the past week or so, by coincidence I've heard a number of filmmakers I respect talking about how dire the film industry has become. With profits so low, studios aren't taking chances. Mediocre blockbusters are all we get, until Oscar season. Woody has to go to Europe. Fucking Scorcese can't do what he wants. etc.

And I do wonder if stealing Dude Where's My Car in some way eventually contributes to the lack of small quality films.

yes it does. internet hi-five?

 

[Keeping It Simple]

Rob Instigator is dead right, obviously, but I did read recently that smartphones and tablets are getting greener, so, maybe in 5-10 years time, Robs argument will be moot, hopefully.

[Rob Instigator]

The only thing getting greener is the wallets of the already rich and powerful.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

IRONY.

From an artists perspective, we actually WANT to big movie studios and record companies to bleed to death. The big companies are trying to persuade artists that it is their fans fault, for sharing and downloading. what a crock of shit! How can people who listen to and watch your art be your enemies even if they didn't buy it? FUCK THAT. FUCK THE BIG STUDIOS. So what if rich as Martin Scorcese or Woody can't make another 8-figure movie. The sky is falling boo hoo! Fuck that corrupt, greedy system. Liberate ART.

It is a VICTORY that the big systems are collapsing under their own weight like the Roman Empire. When the big movie studios collapse, the independents and DIY will fill in the void like mom and pop book stores are reviving in the wake of Barnes and Noble disappearing. See how capitalism works? We shouldn't blindly support the studios because they appear to provide us the art. FUCK THE STUDIOS. Let them fall. Let the artists pick up the slack. Let artists create art for arts sake, and let the cards fall where they fall. If there is truly a market for their art, they will make their money. I listen to major label bands, I watch big studio movies. HOWEVER, if both the labels and the studios died off like the dinosaurs that they are I could really care less. Further I COULD GIVE A FUCK WHAT Y'ALL THINK. Y'all are even more brainwashed then the artists who pimp themselves out with bad contracts. Straight up these artists don't pay my bills, these studios don't pay my rent.

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I just gave away a giant sack (not stack) of books to a friend.

Stealin' from the mouths of industry babes!

Just like used vidya-games.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to floatingslowly again.

[keep poppin pimples]

i frankly don't care if authors go broke. if you can't earn any money get in the welfare line with the normal people, instead of crying that you're an artiste and entitled to everybodies attention and money

[Rob Instigator]

It is not if authors go broke, pimples. That will happen if no one read them. However, if there are thousands of people reading the author, and not paying, and the author goes broke, THAT is a crime!

[h8kurdt]

 

 

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED, LAD!

[Trama]

Still use mine. I like that I can read outside and toss it around without giving a fuck. Matter of fact, I've broken a screen before and the same day a new Kindle was on the mail, free of charge.

Originally Posted by Severian

you'll probably end up being talked into one of the fancy pants new HD ones

They won't, they don't make any money on the hardware.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Read books. Listen to music. Pay for it you can. Don't get caught up it the politics and the bullshit. FUCK BIG RECORD COMPANIES, BIG MOVIE STUDIOS, AND BIG PUBLISHERS. Fuck corporate fleecing and pimping of art. Free art. Free artists.

Straight up, I'd honestly feel more comfortable STEALING a book or a CD and then directly handing over a few bucks in cash to the artist as a handout. I feel more morally acceptable about that, I didn't have to get in cahoots with the big exploitative corporations. Haha. What is funny. I bet folks feel all smug and nice when they buy all this shit, and honestly dupe themselves into believing they are "supporting their favorite artists" when the sadder reality is those artists aren't seeing shit of that money, and the big companies win again

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Trama

Still use mine. I like that I can read outside and toss it around without giving a fuck. Matter of fact, I've broken a screen before and the same day a new Kindle was on the mail, free of charge.



They won't, they don't make any money on the hardware.

which one do you have? i wanted to get the cheapo but it seemed crummy. then i wanted to get the "paper white" version but didn't know.