Originally Posted by The Usher

Rascist jokes are often seen as acceptable as long as the person telling then is'nt rascist (I find this distinction difficult to imagine), but Manning was so full of hate. It is not at all sad that he's dead.

That's exactly the sort of dodginess that I see in David Walliams and Matt Lucas. I'm not calling it racism as such, but it's almost like some latent or mild xenophobia is hidden by the self- deprecatory humour of Little Britain, which in turns drives the attention to it away from more, erm, 'simple' viewers.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

I don't mind the Brand actually, it's the "I'm a cockernee geeer" shtick that annoys me really.

He's taking the piss. His stand up is a total deconstruction of his cockney-ness

It works because we DON'T believe him. and he knows that.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

That's exactly the sort of dodginess that I see in David Walliams and Matt Lucas. I'm not calling it racism as such, but it's almost like some latent or mild xenophobia is hidden by the self- deprecatory humour of Little Britain, which in turns drives the attention to it away from more, erm, 'simple' viewers.

Quite

I think that sketch is trying to be like Ted and Ralph from the Fast Show, but whereas that had 2 caricatures of a farmer and the upper class the focus was on their relationship and it had alot more subtlety and depth than Lou and Andy, which to me is just an excuse for Lucas to sit in a wheelchair and look disabled and Walliams to put on a speech impediment.


On Bernard Manning - You limit its effect if you dont listen i find. From what ive seen he was taking the piss out of everyone except his own audience, and thats the problem. Something like South Park takes swipes at everything, even themselves. That Falklands quip is pretty good though.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

He's taking the piss. His stand up is a total deconstruction of his cockney-ness

It works because we DON'T believe him. and he knows that.

Sorry but if thats a comedy character then im a plate of chips.

[quote=the ikara cult]Quite

I think that sketch is trying to be like Ted and Ralph from the Fast Show, but whereas that had 2 caricatures of a farmer and the upper class the focus was on their relationship and it had alot more subtlety and depth than Lou and Andy, which to me is just an excuse for Lucas to sit in a wheelchair and look disabled and Walliams to put on a speech impediment.

quote]

Word!

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

That's exactly the sort of dodginess that I see in David Walliams and Matt Lucas. I'm not calling it racism as such, but it's almost like some latent or mild xenophobia is hidden by the self- deprecatory humour of Little Britain, which in turns drives the attention to it away from more, erm, 'simple' viewers.

If you're saying they have a certain respect/empathy/understanding for those they ridicule, then that's long been a necessary seed for much of what we call great comedy, and is the very reason why someone like Lee Evans is so awful.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

If you're saying they have a certain respect/empathy/understanding for those they ridicule, then that's long been a necessary seed for much of what we call great comedy, and is the very reason why someone like Lee Evans is so awful.

They both come accross as phonies, that's what I'm trying to say.

[demonrail666]

David Walliams maybe. Not sure I'd agree about Lucas though. Depends what you mean by phonies I suppose.

That said, they've both hit something of a creative impasse of late.

[MellySingsDoom]

Going off the point a bit, but in the mid-80's, I was "forced" to go watch Jimmy Cricket perform in Croydon (supported by the immortal Fogwell Flax). I reckon just about every stereotype of the thick Irishman was peddled out that night, as well as some truly rotten jokes. His piece de resistance was "dancing" in front of a strobe light to Bill Hailey's "Rock Around The Clock". Fogwell Flax was even worse. What a horrible evening that was.

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

If you're saying they have a certain respect/empathy/understanding for those they ridicule, then that's long been a necessary seed for much of what we call great comedy, and is the very reason why someone like Lee Evans is so awful.

Empathy and Sympathy is 2 different things. They may well have either for the characters they make but they havent got the wit and intelligence to take them beyond storyboard cartoon stage, hence the simple (if well executed) gags. A bit of character insight would do Lou and Andy wonders but Lucas and Walliams simply dont know how to do that sort of thing unlike with Only Fools and Horses or something like that - with Only fools the gag tends to be Del Boy is a bit of a conman and Rodneys not too bright but theyre fully formed characters and it makes me laugh when you see how their traits affect their interactions with their environment, not simply "Del boy is lying" or "Rodney is thick". To do that you need to take characters to a deeper level.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

David Walliams maybe. Not sure I'd agree about Lucas though. Depends what you mean by phonies I suppose.

You're just saying that because he's gay, and gays are incapable of racism.

[demonrail666]

heterophobe.

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

You're just saying that because he's gay, and gays are incapable of racism.

Are you a licorice queen?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

Empathy and Sympathy is 2 different things. They may well have either for the characters they make but they havent got the wit and intelligence to take them beyond storyboard cartoon stage, hence the simple (if well executed) gags.

The understanding I refer to isn't towards characters so much as a certain style of British comedy, largely of the Dick Emerey kind. A sort of seaside pier grotesque.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

heterophobe.

You see? You're accusing me of heterophobia, so that it clears you up of any future jokes against the gays. Gayphobe.

[demonrail666]

Gayphobaphile

Homophobilian of the first order.

[demonrail666]

militant breederphobe

Willy loather!

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Willy loather!

Isn't that the main character in Arthur Miller's "Death Of A Salesman"?