[Florya]

Originally Posted by Glice

I've noticed that everyone whose said this criticism is far too young to have ever seen the Birthday Party - I'm wondering if anyone on this board has? Florya and SonicL are the most likely candidates - were they any good? And were they criticised for being Goth-Stooges-lite?

I saw them in early '83 in some pokey little nightclub in Brighton, I was pretty wasted at the time, can't even remember the clubs name but it wasn't the Zap or the Escape.
I never really thought of them as 'Stooges-lite', more as a cross between Goth and Psychobilly.

[Glice]

Right, right, some people getting fixated on the particulars and not the sentiment (should've worded myself better).

The point I was making is that it's very easy to say, when a band is current, that they sound like a band long since passed. It's easier to do that when you've not seen the band. Someone like the Stooges or the Pistols or even the Velvets have an amazing reputation as a live band because nearly no-one saw them; those that did can exagerrate it, and someone in their mid-20s can do nothing about it.

I know some kiddies who've heard amazing things about bands like Placebo or Mogwai or whoever on their early tours, and having seen a night of the first British tour of each, they were very good, but I honestly can't remember how good the shows were because it was over a decade ago and I wasn't that used to (good) live shows at the time.

Talking about the Horrors while they're still current (and very popular) it seems a little unfair to be dismissive of them because they've copped their style from elsewhere; by the same token, if you read a review of every single live show from the Birthday Party (or whomever) I expect you'd find a wealth of journalists saying "The Birthday Party are just [band x]-lite". It's retrospect, and their records, and the lack of a contemporaneous context that often lead us to 'overplay' their influence. Bauhaus or the Birthday Party were by no means the only Goth bands, but they've become the more important ones; by the same token, it may be that we'll forget the Horrors in 2 years time, or their next record might blow everyone away (and let's not forget - the first Birthday Party (boys next door) record is not that great, and Prayers on Fire is patchy).

I suppose my point is that there are nearly no genuinely original rock bands, there are a few innovative ones (who they are would change from person to person) and whether hindsight judges a band to be amazing or not isn't really possible at this vantage.

Take someone like Earth - were they amazing in their day, when nearly no-one knew them, or does it make more sense now? Are they the same but better now because their live show is worth seeing?

Does this make sense to anyone or are we all excited about the idea of forming an opinion IMMEDIATELY NOW?