[quote=ThePits]Some bands, particularly when starting out, have encouraged bootlegging of gigs in order to increase exposure

Some bands even put out free downloads to achieve the same ends

quote]

That smacks of desperation, but to each their own. In any case, how can a poorly recorded version of a song be threatening to the overall sales of the polished version? Also, if it wasn't for bootlegers the world over, we would have rarely been able to hear the other side of The Velvet Underground's story, to name one band, the side that had them blowing up amps and terrifying audiences. All their official live albums are the fruit of dedicated bootlegers, so there.

[ThePits]

[quote=sarramkrop]

Originally Posted by ThePits

Some bands, particularly when starting out, have encouraged bootlegging of gigs in order to increase exposure

Some bands even put out free downloads to achieve the same ends

quote]

That smacks of desperation, but to each their own. In any case, how can a poorly recorded version of a song be threatening to the overall sales of the polished version? Also, if it wasn't for bootlegers the world over, we would have rarely been able to hear the other side of The Velvet Underground's story, to name one band, the side that had them blowing up amps and terrifying audiences. All their official live albums are the fruit of dedicated bootlegers, so there.

Poorly recorded?

Hmm you might want to check out the guy at the top of Canal St Market, Camden who was recently busted by Trading Standards and the BPI

The recordings he was selling, and in some cases dvd's, were very good quality

Funnily enough he is a former crew member of Siouxie and the Banshees

One of the guys caught at the Prince aftershow had a couple of thousand pounds worth of pro recording kit concealed on his miserable carcass and the recording of the main Prince arena show that we listened to was as clear as a bell

[jon boy]

[quote=ThePits]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Poorly recorded?

Hmm you might want to check out the guy at the top of Canal St Market, Camden who was recently busted by Trading Standards and the BPI

The recordings he was selling, and in some cases dvd's, were very good quality

Funnily enough he is a former crew member of Siouxie and the Banshees

One of the guys caught at the Prince aftershow had a couple of thousand pounds worth of pro recording kit concealed on his miserable carcass and the recording of the main Prince arena show that we listened to was as clear as a bell

those home taping is killing music and cinema bootleg films really worked on you didnt they?

so prince might not sell a few extra cd's, which by the way where given out free at the gig, i am not going to stress about that.

[Everyneurotic]

blown out of proportion.

this is just because prince is a cunt.

[quote=jon boy]

Originally Posted by ThePits

those home taping is killing music and cinema bootleg films really worked on you didnt they?

so prince might not sell a few extra cd's, which by the way where given out free at the gig, i am not going to stress about that.

I didn't say that. What's going on with the misquoting?

[Tokolosh]

Now I'm getting confused. Who quoted who?
The only thing that makes sense, is that Prince is a cunt.

[Alex's Trip]

Originally Posted by ThePits

What you actually said was "i dont care if the album sales get affected."

So if album sales drop so low the band gets dropped by the record company as economically unviable and there are no more albums you wont mind?

I don't know anyone who would purchase illegal bootlegs and not purchase the studio album.

You keep talking about people bootlegging for a profit, but who is gonna buy from them when you got the real thing on Amazon.com for $10?!

And if the people are going to give away/trade bootlegs: I don't know anyone who could survive on the live version only. Everyone I know would want the studio version, which would probably lead to illegal downloading, which is entirely different than bootlegging.

[Alex's Trip]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I didn't say that. What's going on with the misquoting?

Edit your post and delete the part that says "[quote=the pits]" and your quote problems will be fixed.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by tesla69

spoken like a true cop

So you condone theft?

At least I am not a thief

Jon Boy, I would be grateful if you would send me those trade blogs it would give me another perspective on things

As for the the "home taping is killing music/cinema" etc I actually see the damage bootlegging and piracy does first hand to bands, especially ones starting out

Alex's Trip, selling bootlegged live recordings is still a big market and yes people make a living out of it

The live bootlegs usually go for for about half the price of a legit album to some of the more desirable live gigs with special guests going for up to 5 times the price

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

I don't know anyone who would purchase illegal bootlegs and not purchase the studio album.

You keep talking about people bootlegging for a profit, but who is gonna buy from them when you got the real thing on Amazon.com for $10?!

And if the people are going to give away/trade bootlegs: I don't know anyone who could survive on the live version only. Everyone I know would want the studio version, which would probably lead to illegal downloading, which is entirely different than bootlegging.

Alex told it exactly like it is.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Alex told it exactly like it is.

The question is then who are all the people the BPI and Trading Standards bust every year for bootlegging, not the regular form of piracy, and who are making money from it?

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by ThePits

So you condone theft?

At least I am not a thief

Jon Boy, I would be grateful if you would send me those trade blogs it would give me another perspective on things

As for the the "home taping is killing music/cinema" etc I actually see the damage bootlegging and piracy does first hand to bands, especially ones starting out

Alex's Trip, selling bootlegged live recordings is still a big market and yes people make a living out of it

The live bootlegs usually go for for about half the price of a legit album to some of the more desirable live gigs with special guests going for up to 5 times the price

you sound like no fun to be around.

can you explain in greater detail how the damage is being done? are you against soul seek and other d/l sites etc?

[floatingslowly]

FACTS:

I like ThePits. always rational and rarely hostile. I'm sure he has a good reason for siding with His Purple Majesty.***

Prince is a douche (musical genius, but still a douche).

Live bootlegs (mostly) sound like shit and I would NEVER pay for one. even if it was studio quality....I wouldn't pay.

if I knew that a band had a problem with me listening to live recordings, I wouldn't try to "rip them off". I would most likely lose interest in them however.










***that said, bring truncated back YOU BASTARD!!!

[Alex's Trip]

Originally Posted by ThePits

Alex's Trip, selling bootlegged live recordings is still a big market and yes people make a living out of it

The live bootlegs usually go for for about half the price of a legit album to some of the more desirable live gigs with special guests going for up to 5 times the price

Originally Posted by ThePits

The question is then who are all the people the BPI and Trading Standards bust every year for bootlegging, not the regular form of piracy, and who are making money from it?

But none of that explains how it is going to decrease album sales. Just because a live bootleg is cheaper doesn't mean that fans aren't going to buy the studio albums. There may or may not be a lot of bootleggers still out there but that doesn't prove anything.

The people who give a shit about any particular band are probably going to buy an album before going to see them live. Then they are probably going to pay for a ticket to see them live. At which point, if they so choose to have a less than studio quality recording of the show they just paid to see, they can choose to purchase/trade/obtain a live bootleg. I don't see how it is going to decrease album sales.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

FACTS:

I like ThePits. always rational and rarely hostile. I'm sure he has a good reason for siding with His Purple Majesty.***

Prince is a douche (musical genius, but still a douche).

Live bootlegs (mostly) sound like shit and I would NEVER pay for one. even if it was studio quality....I wouldn't pay.

if I knew that a band had a problem with me listening to live recordings, I wouldn't try to "rip them off". I would most likely lose interest in them however.










***that said, bring truncated back YOU BASTARD!!!

Please dont think I am siding with the purple pain, after 6 shows I am sick to the back teeth of the him

As for truncated I plead not guilty

However, stuff an envelope full of used 50's under the bench outside London Zoo in Regents Park and I might be able to negotiate her return.......

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by ThePits

Please dont think I am siding with the purple pain, after 6 shows I am sick to the back teeth of the him

As for truncated I plead not guilty

However, stuff an envelope full of used 50's under the bench outside London Zoo in Regents Park and I might be able to negotiate her return.......

1) FORGOTTEN. I have disassociated you with The Artist Formerly Known As Douche.

2) yeah right. like you would be cool with SOMEONE ELSE knocking her up.

3) do you accept Hasbro?

 

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by jon boy

you sound like no fun to be around.

can you explain in greater detail how the damage is being done? are you against soul seek and other d/l sites etc?

As you have never been around me I will refrain from commenting on the "fun" line

OK, with album sales down by between a third and two thirds, depending on the record label, over the last ten years, income to support and develop new talent is at an all time low

A large part of that decline is due to piracy

An A&R department in one label I know of had its budget slashed by 25% last year

Within the figures and estimates for piracy comes what is being discussed here, i.e. the bootlegging of live gigs

So its not all of the problem but a part of it

The same as bootleg band merch leeches money that is increasingly relied on to support production costs for live shows

A person recording a show for their own private use is one thing, selling it is another so lets be clear on the difference

Its selling the stuff that does the damage, and yes people do sell bootlegs and they do make a living at it

The bottom line is less income at the record companies = less new bands and artists getting vital support to reach an audience bigger than their local pub

If you require an even more detailed explanation let me know

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

1) FORGOTTEN. I have disassociated you with The Artist Formerly Known As Douche.

2) yeah right. like you would be cool with SOMEONE ELSE knocking her up.

3) do you accept Hasbro?

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to floatingslowly again.

[jon boy]

i think your looking at one thing you dislike and blaming a lot of problems on bootlegs. i dont suppose the internet d/ling and ipods would have anything to do with lessening album sales would they? its just technology changing things. its a big wide world out there.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by jon boy

i think your looking at one thing you dislike and blaming a lot of problems on bootlegs. i dont suppose the internet d/ling and ipods would have anything to do with lessening album sales would they? its just technology changing things. its a big wide world out there.

Legitimate downloads are included as sales in the figures

Its the illegal downloads that do the damage

The thing I dont like about it is simple, I have seen so many talented artists who cant get a break due to lack of funding giving up after years of bashing their heads off of corporate walls

Makes you wonder how many bands of truly great potential have been lost